Tycho's Supernova
Posted on 08/19/2009 7:20:29 PM PDT by bruinbirdman
Scientists have peered further back in time than ever before using instruments designed to search for a phenomenon predicted by Albert Einstein almost a century ago but not yet proven to exist.
An American observatory hunting for ripples in space and time called gravitational waves has produced its most significant results yet, despite not having directly detected any.
Tycho's Supernova
The “non-discovery” offers insights into the state of the Universe just 60 seconds into its existence. Previous research has been unable to look back in time further than about 380,000 years after the big bang.
The new window on the dawn of time has been opened by the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory (LIGO), a network of three detectors that have been seeking evidence of gravitational waves since 2005.
These waves, which are believed to stretch and squeeze space and time as they pass, were predicted by Einstein in his theory of relativity. Violent events, such as a supernova explosion or the collision of two black holes, should make the biggest and most detectable waves. While their existence is accepted by astrophysicists, they have never been directly detected. LIGO has not yet found any gravitational waves either, and this has important implications for astrophysics and cosmology.
Certain theoretical models of what happened in the first moments of the cosmos predict that gravitational waves should be visible in LIGO’s data. As none have been detected, the “non-findings” narrow down possible explanations for the growth of the Universe.
The research, which is published in the journal Nature , also offers proof that gravitational-wave observatories will open up new horizons for astronomy, allowing scientists to examine aspects of the cosmos that have previously been hidden from view, such as supernovas and black holes. The first 380,000 years after the big
(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...
” ... other things, like gravity waves, travel a lot slower than the speed of light!”
Actually, gravity waves are today theorized to be associated to the propagation of massless elementary particles called gravitons. According to quantum field theory, all massless elementary particles, including the photon and graviton, propagate (in vacuum) at the same speed, about 3 times 10^8 meters per second. This is called the speed of light, although it is the (vacuum) propagation speed of any massless elementary particle, not just the photon. Through the wave-particle duality of quantum mechanics, this means that, in turn, the associated waves (electromagnetic waves in the case of the photon, and gravitational waves in the case of the graviton) also travel at the same speed, the speed of light.
(Although photons and gravitons are both massless and propagate at the same speed, there are important differences between them, the most significant being that photons are what are called spin-1 particles and gravitons are spin-2 particles, which turns out to ultimately provide the basis for why photons mediate electromagnetic interactions and gravitons mediate gravitational interactions.)
They just didn’t find the ether. Its there.
parsy, who just knows it.
pinging my favorite cosmologists...
I think I pinged y’all to a thread on the LIGO a while back.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2266921/posts?page=78
One of the testable predictions of Hatch’s theory is that LIGO, the Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave Observatory, will fail to detect gravity waves. As of July 2007, this prediction stands.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2270920/posts
To: Alamo-Girl
Thanks, AG.
From what I can gather about this scientific controversy, one of the approaches that was supposed to settle it was the Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave Observatory being used as a gravity wave detector. Has it found gravity waves? If not, would that indicate an upper bound of how energetic they would be?
Gravity wave detector all set
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/sci_tech/2003/denver_2003/2774163.stm
The Suppression of Inconvenient Facts in Physics http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2266921/posts
Hatch’s proposed alternative to special and general relativity theory, Modified Lorentz Aether Gauge Theory (MLET), agrees with General Relativity at first order but corrects many astronomical anomalies that GRT cannot account for without ad-hoc assumptions, such as the anomalous rotation of galaxies and certain anomalies in planetary orbits. In addition, the force of gravity is self-limiting in MLET, which eliminates point singularities (black holes), one of the major shortcomings of GRT. One of the testable predictions of Hatch’s theory is that LIGO, the Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave Observatory, will fail to detect gravity waves. As of July 2007, this prediction stands. (30)
http://www2b.abc.net.au/science/k2/stn/archives/archive51/newposts/347/topic347102.shtm
21 posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 12:28:05 AM by Kevmo (So America gets what America deserves - the destruction of its Constitution. ~Leo Donofrio, 6/1/09)
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“IMHO they are more likely attempting to prove the NON-existence of God.”
Hmmm. As one who taught a year of Physics recitation (and rubbed shoulders with said scientists), I would say that you’re exhibiting a bit of religious paranoia. It ain’t like that in the Physics world. Physicist aren’t into the supernatural, and certainly don’t try to disprove the existence of God.
IMHO, more contemporary religious leaders attempt to disprove existence of God than scientists. I could go into the various sects that don’t believe in God’s existence, as weird as that may seem, but if you’re any sort of expert, you know exactly what I’m talking about. This ain’t the place to do it though. Suffice to say that scientists are busy enough just dealing with the physical world, vs. the supernatural where physical laws don’t apply.
No problem, we’ll simply fire up the Infinite Improbability Drive!
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_Improbability_Drive)
Thanks for the ping, dear Kevmo!
I thought it was "Happy Fun Ball".
That's why astrophysics is called a theoretical science. But, those theories frequently prove to be accurate.
When Einstein postulated the phenomenon of time dilation in his Theory of Relativity in 1905, it wasn't proven to be accurate until 1971 - some 66 years later. Einstein's ability to conceptualize the mathematical structure of the universe was far superior to the contemporary ability to create experiments to either prove or disprove those mathematical theories.
That's the purpose of theoretical science, to break away from the tethers or contemporary limitations of other physical sciences to explain the unknown.
parsy, who just knows it.
You know, I was concerned the other day when I saw you make a post that didn't have your signature "parsy" quip...
Parsy, who I suspect samples the "ether" from time to time. :-)
I stopped it for a while, then freepers started asking me to keep doing it.
parsy, who tries to please
Unlike the sun, how do you know where in the universe time began?
For all we know, these "scientists" have looked past the point where time began and are looking back to the present, and in essence, just wasting my money on stupidity.
Except you don't know for sure were time began. So looking at the furthest object away isn't looking backwards in time. It's looking past the moment where time began back into the present.
Of course if this 'big bang" started at the furthest point in the universe that we can see, then it would be looking back in time, but it's not likely it did, and I've yet to read where in this universe these "scientists" think time, the epicenter of the big bang, began. THAT would be the furtherst back in time we could see. Anything past that point is looking towards the present the further out you go.
Darn, here I come screwing up years of theory that took bags and bags of weed smoking to come up with...
And just remember, you saw it posted here first, and i have the time stamp to prove it.
Where's my nobel prize?
Sorry, not so. Because we all began from the same point, the epicenter of the big bang, and have just been gradually drifting apart, we are only as old as the point from which it all began to now. And since we don't really know how fast this expansion was from the epicenter at first, compared to what it is now, we can't calculate how old we are based on the distance we are from the epicenter of the big bang today.
People on that planet are the same age as we are, except (and for arguments sake are moving away in exactly the opposite direction) they're moving in the opposite direction from the point of where it all began than us.
So if they pointed that device at us, light traveling today over x distance isn't the same as the light from say 2000 years ago, because we were moving apart at a faster rate then, as compared to now, but we were much closer together. (yikes!) it would look like we are gradually slowing down, or walking in slow motion. Man It's a good thing i don't so drugs.
It is the nature of souls to search -- to be in a continual state of becoming. Nothing will change that.
Science will eventually discover that both time and space are illusory. Quantum physics and string theory already hint at this.
But I digress...
Yes. Perspective.
At which time they will be declared lunatics and burned at the stake.
OTH, Science may discover that dimension Time has three variable expressions, and dimension Space has three variable expressions, and the dimension of the soul (Life Force) has three variable expressions, and dimension Spirit has ... well, you get the picture.
The Hymn of Creation
At that time there was neither
existence nor non-existence,
neither the worlds nor the sky.
There was nothing that was beyond.
There was no death, nor immortality.
There was no knowledge of the day and night.
That one alone breathed, without air, by itself.
Besides that there was nothing.
Darkness there was enveloped by darkness.
All this was one water, without any distinction.
It was inactive, covered by void.
That one became active by the power of its own thought.
There came upon it at first desire,
which was the first seed of the mind.
Men of vision found in their meditative state,
the connection between the Being and the Non-Being.
All gods were subsequent to this creative activity.
Then who knows from where this came into existence!
Where this creation came from ,
whether He supported it or not,
He who is controlling it from the highest of the heavens,
He perhaps knows it or He knows it not ! (Rig Veda X.129)
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