Posted on 07/30/2009 8:35:25 PM PDT by Edward Watson
The entire birther argument, that Obama was actually born in Kenya instead of the US, making him ineligible for holding the office of the President of the US, is a spurious argument. It plays into Obama and the liberals hands - they want this to continue since it makes regular conservatives and opponents into fringe wackos.
Not one of us would've looked harder at his legitimacy than Hilary Clinton and the entire Clinton smear machine during the Democratic primaries. That magic bullet would've given Hilary the presidency - and yet nada, bupkis.
There are many valid reasons to oppose Obama and the liberals, but his birthplace isn't one of them.
You continue to prop up your assertion that Obama was born in Hawaii with the statement from the Hawaiian Health Director, but you're willfully ignoring the point that that statement is not hard evidence of fact. It's simply a bureaucrat's press statement. Nothing more.
You can argue that "she wouldn't lie, would she?", but that would just be propping up your already weak supporting article with a huge assumption.
For all of your posting on this thread, you have not once provided a single shred of real evidence to support your contentions. You argue vociferously, I'll give you that, but you'd be shown to your seat in a court of law within three minutes.
Back up your assertions with some solid evidence, or sit down. And, no, we don't want to hear your already debunked "evidence" for the umpteenth time. Where's your proof?
he should ban all those defending the con man - those saying we should look the other way when it comes to BO’s BC. Just get rid of them - nothing conservative or American about them, IMO.
Like I said you are days late and a dollars short on that link you are posting. You really need to read up on both sides.
I guess you do not understand the difference between a COLB and a birth Certificate?
Source?
You're being intentionally irritating, and everyone on this thread sees it.
You probably think you're being cute, and are giggling like some spoiled child, safely behind your keyboard, but it's making you look exactly like that to most people reading here.
You've only expressed your view on this subject once on this thread, by my count, yet you've harassed several posters for their "source", several times.
Tell ya what, miss smarty pants. You can find the "source" for everything you're asking for just as easily as anyone here, and you know it.
If you disagree with someone's points, then come right out and debate them with whatever ammo you've got, but knock of the snarky bullshit. It's really getting tiresome, and isn't impressing anyone here.
Thanks!! Love it.
He never met a tax he didnt like.
Hes got crazy friends like Rev. Wright.
Hed rather give away the farm than fight.
No merci beaucoup.
Obama, no merci beaucoup,
Obama, no merci beaucoup,
Obama, no merci beaucoup,
No merci beaucoup.
He thinks oil should be against the law.
He runs down America.
Hes ashamed of his own Grandma.
No merci beaucoup.
Hey you good people that work all day,
hes got plans to dock your pay,
and let his unemployed voters go and ___ it away,
No merci beaucoup.
You're reading an assertion into those words that isn't there.
The Justice said that the child of the resident alien is a citizen, not a natural born citizen.
This is a very common misreading of this statement, which I've seen on FR many times.
Well, yes, they have. I examined the images in Photoshop and determined that they are absolutely NOT valid, they have been edited. Anyone with a photo editor, and a little rudimentary knowledge of how images are created will have no trouble whatsoever seeing that they're not reliable. There's a whole bunch of evidence of that. Polarik did a reasonable job, but I noticed stuff he missed.
1. Common sense - Stanley Dunham and Barack Obama Sr lived, met and were students in Honolulu. That was there hometown. As students, they had little money, so the natural conclusion would be that they would have very likely had their baby in Honolulu.
This is "evidence" to you? No thanks. It's pure speculation.
2. Marriage in Feb (shotgun wedding?), baby in August; honeymoon was on another hawaiian island; if they were going to travel anywhere else, THAT would have been the time to do it.
You been ripping people for making unsourced and unfounded assertions, and then you just did it. That's too funny!
3. Newspaper announcement of birth one week after birth, Aug 4. Two newspapers had birth announcements on Aug 13 and Aug 14th, and they were in turn gotten from State of Hawaii records office ...
And, the address given wasn't valid. Occupancy of the address has been established, and it was NOT the happy newlyweds. Records from Washington state indicated that Stanley Ann was in Washington state within DAYS after the date given, to go to school - and Obama's father was not with her. So, while the announcement was in the papers, it is demonstrably in error. In other words, false information was given to the state. Whoa, did you just get a flash of doubt there?
In fact, no actual evidence exists that Stanley Ann ever actually lived with Obama's father. If they ever did, it was limited entirely to a few months before and a few days after, Obama's birth.
4. Family recollections that he was born in Honolulu.
Family recollections that he was born in Kenya. Family "recollections" of his birth don't agree. Originally, the claim was Queens medical center, later, Kapiolani made the claim via a letter from the White House, which refuses to authenticate the letter.
==================
5. The COLB - The Certification of Live Birth, that people get from the State of Hawaii when they request birth records. This document has an embossed seal and stamp and is sufficient documentation for getting a passport or a drivers license. The COLB ...
http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_6.jpg http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_2.jpg http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_3.jpg http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_4.jpg http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_5.jpg http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_6.jpg http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_7.jpg http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_8.jpg http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_9.jpg
++++++++++++
Hey, Bub. Forgeries. Amateur, stupid, and easily figured out. I loaded pictures into Photoshop and showed my KIDS, who laughed at the silly wrongness. The scan is totally bogus, has been repeatedly edited. The photographs have irreconcilable errors on them, including aspect, dimensions, and shadows. They are supposedly photos of a laser printed document, but the images have specific errors that are easy to demonstrate and absolutely and conclusively prove they're not genuine.
6. Obama obtained US passports for overseas travel. He needed valid birth certification that proved US citizenship to do so. While the above COLB is from 2007, he needed a prior one to get his passport to go to Kenya.
Could you please show me he had a US passport? No, you can't. Just baseless assertions.
7. State officials from Hawaii vouched for his birth records being on file and him being born in Hawaii.
Really? Let's look at the two statements from Fukino...
First: “I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.”
Which is to say that... There's a file and it has records in it. It says absolutely nothing else.
Next, Fukino said:
“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barrack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago,”
Ok, cool. But what's Fukino looking at? By deliberately obfuscating the words, we're left with the same question we had before, and Fukino shed no actual light on the subject.
In 1961, there were 4 (yes, FOUR) ways to get a birth certificate in Hawaii. 1. Doctor or midwife files the information with the state. 2. Parents MAIL IN A FORM with whatever data they want on it. 3. Late filing, where up to a year after birth, you could swear out the details and the state issues a BC. 4. If nothing else was done, you could, as an adult, swear out the details of your birth, and if the official is convinced, you'll be issued a a BC.
Now, Hawaii claims that the originals are all preserved, and backed up on microfilm. Further, a limited amount of the data contained on whatever paper document there is, has been transcribed into a database. This database is used to issue COLB's. The COLB can be obtained in person or by mail. If in person, you provide identification and they print what they have. If you request by mail, the data on the COLB will issued ONLY if what's in the electronic record is on the written request. Whatever data is provided on the written request is the ONLY data then provided on the COLB, even if more is included in the electronic record.
Last: ONLY the original paper record, or the microfilm copy of it, will tell you which way of the 4 means was used to create the BC.
So, if Fukino is looking merely at the electronic record, the database, Fukino may know nothing of substance.
Oh, and Fukino is NOT a legal authority on the topic of who is or who is NOT a "natural born citizen", so it seems that Fukino's been speaking out of turn is obviously willing to just say stuff without either knowledge or fact being part of it. In other words, Fukino just accomplished self-discrediting. How dumb.
So, was Obama born in Hawaii? Maybe, maybe not. There isn't any proof in the public domain, period.
However, Obama has demonstrated that all his statements are like milk, they have an expiration date. It is not possible to know what's true, what's false, by simply listening to him. He claims Hawaiian birth, and given his propensities... That's actually evidence he wasn't.
But whether he is or is not, the issue for me is that Obama doesn't want us to know who he is, and his "who" is purely a constructed image, without depth. I want him to prove his eligibility, and I want any and every possible legal challenge to him argued out before the SCOTUS, and if illegal in any way, he be removed and jailed for life.
Each day, each story, each denigration of the public for asking that comes from the White House is yet like another snowflake falling that builds weight to the drift, adding weight to the assertion that the man is of unfit character to be president.
The assumption that after he resists for 2.5 years, and some legal eagle finally forces him to produce evidence will not paint those who ask as outside of reality, but instead, demonstrate how petty and small he is, for having the arrogance to assume that "winning is the right to rule".
This cannot help him. The number of people interested in what he wants to hide continues to grow, not shrink. His amateurish, arrogant, and patently foolish behavior as president are amplified in effect by this, not diminished. It would be trivial for him to be open and settle this. But instead, he sends lawyers out to poke their fingers in the public's eyes, saying YOU DO NOT HAVE STANDING TO QUESTION ME. The more he does it, the more he turns people off.
But you engage in a liberal tactic that's time honored and easily recognized. You attempt to define other people's thoughts and positions falsely. While we know that some people interested in this believe that Obama was born in Kenya, some think he was born in Canada, Indonesia, Honolulu, or even Washington state. Some don't care, but want to know why Obama's so closed off and desperate to hide things. In other words, you have a bone to pick and are only interested in influencing people OTHER than those you lable "birthers" - you want to influence through deception - by deliberate miss-statement of other's words, thoughts, or beliefs - to turn people against each other.
If you wanted to argue with what I think, or what someone else thinks in hopes of changing our minds, you'd address us within our distinct and different positions and thoughts. But you don't. You've created a straw man position, declared everyone not like you thinks that, and then proceed to try to poison people's minds.
This is not a conservative means of debate, it is not a demonstration of character or of intellectual integrity. It is base, corrupt, and self serving politics.
I've studied the lib movement for decades... ever since I was no longer one, and you fit it well. Go join them, you'll be far happier there.
Prove what?
For instance, there's no question that I'm a citizen. I was born in the US, to two American citizens. There's no question about it. And that's ALL you ahve to be to vote.
There's a special class of "citizen" required to be president, and that's "natural born", which is NOT just "a citizen".
But to address the stupidity of your question... I had to obtain and then provide SEVERAL items of proof, including birth certificates, to get passports for the wife and kids (I don't have one yet)...
So, the factors involved.
1. both parents citizens.
2. did not ever live outside the us with diplomatic immunity granted by a nation other the US
3. Make no effort to hide my history
4. My origins have not and are not in question by any legal authority.
5. Wasn't adopted by a non citizen of the US.
If I were to run for president, and ANYONE asked, I would personally fly to Boise, and in writing release the state to publish whatever they still have for me. I would offer the most authentic source possible, one that didn't come from me. The same for any college records people might want. And the ones from back in the 80's aren't flattering. The later ones are, though :)
My history isn't flattering. It's very mundane and middle classish, and demonstrates a working class background. But respect for the nation would compel me to act honorably and respectfully toward anyone who I am supposed to serve - whether I would agree with them or not, or they with me. Obama doesn't even know what that last paragraph means.
Thanks N ewbie!
Wow...NEWBIE!! What insight.....
Did they ever find who killed the witness in the passport investigation??? Shades of ARKANCIDE!
Why would he spend ONE PENNY in court fighting the release of his BC??? Forget a million dollars....just ONE PENNY shouldn’t be spent by him for that.
I’d forgotten all about Michael Rivero. Remember when he was a big star on Free Republic?
Be sure not to step in front of that “legal cannon.”
There is a faint odor of Quisling around here.
Well now, I don’t actually have to believe he was born in Kenya to want to see all the vital information including the long form birth certificate, because I am from MISSOURI-see. Just show me-p.s. I’d like to see the college records, medical records,passports, etc. etc. etc.
Besides, there are times when Americans have to show their long form certificates are there not? Why shouldn’t our #1 public servant do the same for his job? Its the “fairness doctrine” (doncha know).
So you admit Obama is not eligible for the presidency. Thanks for that, at least.
When you ask a question that has a yes or no how does that make you a kook? So we ask questions in court about our government any more? Thanks so much communist.
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