Posted on 05/26/2009 10:32:53 AM PDT by lewisglad
I agree. Intelligent people can converse using the Socratic method, of asking probing questions, leading each other on a quest for either Truth or at least common ground. It's fun and educational for all.
However, I increasingly meet people who seem to have no idea what the Socratic method is, but do have a sense that they just "don't want to go there". You can ask a simple question like "Doesn't the UK have managed care?" and they will immediately sense an impending trap, launch into a very long discourse about FDA approval processes for new pharmaceuticals, and totally pull away from any talk of managed care in other countries.
When someone refuses to give anything like a simple response to a simple question, you know it's all hopeless.
Socretes = Socrates
Ping for later.
I just tell them to F. off.
Dammit - langusge=language...
Heeeee Heeeeeeee!
I still like the idea of using a 2x4 upside their heads.
I had opened the floodgates. Just like the courtiers in The Emperor's New Clothes, this friend had been trying to convince herself that Michelle was beautiful -- and she couldn't. Finally, though, in response to the media's implicit question of "Who're you going to believe -- me, or your lying eyes?" my friend, with a sigh of relief, could go with her own eyes. I hastened the eye-opening process by showing her Sally Quinn's ridiculous Mother's Day article about Michelle's arms, which left my friend reeling. For the first time ever, my friend is beginning to suspect that she's been had.
Even liberals know that they are being lied to deep inside!
GMTA
The best way to speak to a liberal is to shame them into admitting their support for hatred of traditional values and disdain for those of us who hold to them.
Take liberal gun control for instance. They don’t care about the minutia of how a firearm works, or what crime statistics say, or what logic dictates. They don’t like us, and they don’t trust us. They ALWAYS think the worst of us. Make them admit it openly. When that light is shined on those cockroaches, even a liberal cannot hide from it.
Maybe next post I’ll really tell you what I think. :)
But you are. The goals are generally good, the method is poison.
Do you want children to have a good education?
Of course you do, who doesn't want children to have a good education?
But the liberal method of ensuring children have a good education will simply ensure that no child has a good education.
Gibberish. Trying to convince/persuade liberals is a complete waste of time. You will sway them intellectually - and then they will act on the basis of their “feelings.” Liberals are children. They must simply be told what to do. Which is why they like big gubmint - to do exactly that.
“Liberalism is an infirmity that gives psychotics identity”
How is *anyone* ever supposed to combat that with “facts” or rationality?
I don’t bother trying to change their twisted minds.
I simply wait until they get “mugged” and have their own epiphany...*if* they ever do.
Most liberals are born with an irrational mind, averse to facts and logic, which are trumped by emotion and self-gratification.
I used to take this guy’s approach, until I figured out that it was 100% pointless. A hardcore liberal is simply incapable of linear thought.
Every action a leftist supports or take are geared solely toward satisfying the agenda of liberal-feel-goodism for thyself. Not one iota of thought is given to true consequence of policy or actions. Facts are an obstacle, and their sources are discredited and dismissed if they dare get in the way.
I don’t waste my time on conversion any longer. We need to be focused on their defeat.
Wrong. If facts mattered to liberals, they would not be liberals.
I have/had a friend that’s a flaming liberal and the epitome of a Bush-hater. Outside of politics he’s a nice guy. When discussing anything politically-related he becomes rude and hateful and angry. He described his own parents as “rabid” Democrats.
The best approach to dealing with people like this is to slowly back yourself out of their lives and lose touch with them. They’ll never come around to logical conservative thinking, just like I’ll never come around to being an AlGore liberal.
I’ve found that if you try to argue point versus point, they aren’t listening. They’ve already been indoctrinated by the media, and whatever facts you marshall, they don’t believe them.
So two things work. The first is to listen for the underlying assumptions, and go after those. They aren’t as well defended. Once you’ve cast doubt on the underlying assumption, the policy debate will eventually fall of its own weight. Maybe not now in time for you to declare victory in this conversation, but down the road. The second is like the writer says, listen politely, ask polite questions that eventually lead the person to the contradiction. Point out the contradiction, but don’t force him to admit you’re right. If you, again, try to claim victory, the defenses come up. Just lead him to the contradiction, let him see it himself, and then let that simmer until next time.
Good humor always helps. Good humor is the best persuader.
Eventually the fruit is ripe and it falls on its own time. Not before. You can’t force it. We think its an argument about facts, but its actually an argument about two ways of looking at life. You’ll never win arguing facts, because they interpret facts through another lens; so even if you can agree on the facts it doesn’t help much.
My SIL is a flaming, NEA lib (just to the right of “barking, moonbat, wingnut job).
I laugh out loud when she recites talking points. Then quickly go straight-faced and ask her, “Are you serious?”
After about 5 in a row, she gets the point and moves on to some other sucker.
I had the same thought, but this is simply used as a ruse, an icebreaker to soften up the subject to further conversation.
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