Posted on 05/26/2009 10:32:53 AM PDT by lewisglad
Many of us have friends, family and colleagues who still cling to liberalism, and worship at the altar of Obama. Usually, they are not bad people. They're neither stupid nor pusillanimous -- they're just shockingly ill-informed, having received a lifetime of news and opinions solely from the liberal media.
We want to enlighten our friends, not offend them, and the fact is that one cannot simultaneously insult and persuade people.
So how do you talk to liberals if you want them to begin thinking logically, not emotionally, about issues? Insults are counterproductive, factual barrages are boring, and most people get defensive when they feel you're attacking their values. Nevertheless, here are a few ways to find the chink in a liberal's intellectual armor and, possibly, effect a sea change in his thinking.
1. Understand what a liberal perceives as insulting -- and then avoid it.
We're all agreed that people are going to shut down if you start a conversation by calling them blithering idiots. In any event, you're too nice a person to call your family, friends and colleagues names.
Be aware, though, that, with liberals, personal insults don't stop with the actual person (or his mother). For liberals, the political is personal. This means that liberals will take it as a personal insult, not only if you call them morons, but also if you call their leaders morons.
While conservatives spent eight years hearing "Bush lied, people died" or "Cheney is evil", responding with reasoned facts aimed at real dialogue, even the nicest liberals don't operate that way. If you open a conversation by saying, "Pelosi is an idiot," or "Obama is the Manchurian candidate," you can expect tears, yelling or a punch in the nose. Any persuasive conversation will be over before it's begun.
2. Show that you are sympathetic to the liberal's goals.
The best way to start a conversation with a liberal is by speaking liberal language. Show that you think that the person's ultimate goal is admirable or that you recognize the person's concerns.
A perfect conversation starter might be "Gosh, universal healthcare would really be great." The beauty of this statement is that, in a perfect Star Trek-style world, free of money and greed, it's true that free, comprehensive healthcare, preferably with Dr. Beverly Crusher's magical little tricorder device, would be great. It would also be really great if all men looked like Dave Beckham or all women like looked like Angelina Jolie. It'll never happen, but it sure would be great.
Another honest conversation starter is "My kids are really worried about global warming." If your kids go to public school, this statement is absolutely true. It also implies, without actually saying so, that you, like all liberals, recognize that humans, especially American, are responsible for the imminent destruction of earth's atmosphere.
With conversation starters such as these, your average liberal will begin the conversation by agreeing with you -- and, as every con man knows, you want the mark to get used to saying "yes" to you. Interestingly, what works for con men can also work for honest brokers. It's a good technique, so use it.
3. Provide the liberal with facts from non-threatening sources.
In many conversations over the years, I've discovered that my liberal friends don't have many politically relevant facts at their finger tips. Liberals know, for example, that "prisoners were waterboarded at Gitmo." The details behind this ultimate fact tend to elude them. Most don't realize that only three high level Al Qaeda operatives were ever waterboarded. Nor do they know that the waterboarding took place in the immediate wake of 9/11, when we had almost no information about Al Qaeda's networks and feared an imminent, and even greater, second attack.
Mostly, though, liberals know conclusions, which they erroneously identify as facts. For example, they know that huge numbers of Americans have no medical care; they know that Obama was a top student at every school he attended; and despite their support for the military, they know that most American troops are ill-educated, violent hicks. As it happens, each of these statements is factually wrong (see here, here and here) and, instead, reflects only an emotional conclusion.
In any conversation with a liberal, therefore, you need to get out the facts. But remember: In pursuit of this goal, attribution is everything. Never say to a liberal that you heard something on Rush's show. This is true even if the fact originated with a liberal Rush was interviewing. Mention Rush and your conversation is over. Finito. Done. Your liberal will shut down.
Instead, always attribute your fact to a comforting source. I like to say, "You know, I read in the New York Times that [insert actual fact]." The beauty of this approach is that the fact may often be found in the New York Times, although it will have been buried in a squiblet at the bottom of page B32, where no one looks. If your friends googles your fact, voila!, she'll get a link to the Times.
Alternatively, attribute your fact to an unnamed knowledgeable, but unthreatening, source. If you're talking about health insurance, and you want to talk about the cost differential between insurance in Texas (a low regulation state) and California (a high regulation) state, say that you got this information from a claims adjuster you met at a party. You've gained credibility and the curious liberal can later find corroboration on the internet.
4. Don't lecture; instead, seek enlightenment.
When conversing with a liberal, I channel my inner dumb blond. I don't use a barrage of facts, nor do I lecture. Instead, I assert politely that I've learned the fact and then I ask the liberal to explain to me what the fact means. I do this even if I know perfectly well what the fact means. (And yes, women can do this more easily than men.)
A good example of this approach in action is universal health care. After you've said, "Gosh, universal healthcare would be really great," you should then follow-up with several "please enlighten me, Oh Great One" questions.
Thus, you might say, "England has managed care doesn't it? It's so funny, but I just read in the New York Times that there's a dentist shortage in England, so people are pulling out their own teeth. Are you sure that won't happen here?" This will either lead to bluster, an insult to British oral hygiene, or a good conversation about how important competition is to entice the best and the brightest into a profession and to keep innovation alive.
Another useful fact/loaded question is this one: "Someone told me that universal health care is kind of like social security -- it works best when there aren't a lot of old people, ‘cause they're the most expensive. I wasn't sure about that. What do you think?" When your liberal starts waffling on, throw into the conversation how you read that, in England, they're discussing euthanizing elderly demented patients, because their care is too expensive.
If you just keep politely throwing in unpleasant facts, followed up by respectful requests for enlightenment, your average liberal will either become tongue-tied, or, if intelligent, work his way through to the correct answer. With managed care, for example, he might conclude that, if you remove all competition and have only one provider, rationing begins, quality plummets, good people pull out of the system, and people suffer and die.
5. Strike when the iron is hot.
To have a successful conversation with a liberal, you need to find an opening that triggers a thought cascade in that particular liberal. Even though liberals are beginning to have buyer's remorse, human nature means they're just as likely to be in denial and defensive as they are to be regretful and receptive. Still there are conversational opportunities, and you must seize them.
I recently visited a die-hard Democrat who had just received her copy of Time Magazine, which had a picture of Michelle Obama on the cover. Now, my friend happens to be very beauty conscious so, in a completely non-hostile way, I scanned the cover and said, "I don't know. She's a nice looking lady, but I don't get why all the news stories keep describing her as beautiful."
I had opened the floodgates. Just like the courtiers in The Emperor's New Clothes, this friend had been trying to convince herself that Michelle was beautiful -- and she couldn't. Finally, though, in response to the media's implicit question of "Who're you going to believe -- me, or your lying eyes?" my friend, with a sigh of relief, could go with her own eyes. I hastened the eye-opening process by showing her Sally Quinn's ridiculous Mother's Day article about Michelle's arms, which left my friend reeling. For the first time ever, my friend is beginning to suspect that she's been had.
6. Don't undo the good you've done.
And if it ever happens that, after you've spoken with a liberal, the liberal actually agrees with you, just be sure to avoid one of the most poisonous phrases in the English language: "I told you so." Instead, quietly agree with your friend's wonderful insights, and have another conversation on another day.
I agree. Intelligent people can converse using the Socratic method, of asking probing questions, leading each other on a quest for either Truth or at least common ground. It's fun and educational for all.
However, I increasingly meet people who seem to have no idea what the Socratic method is, but do have a sense that they just "don't want to go there". You can ask a simple question like "Doesn't the UK have managed care?" and they will immediately sense an impending trap, launch into a very long discourse about FDA approval processes for new pharmaceuticals, and totally pull away from any talk of managed care in other countries.
When someone refuses to give anything like a simple response to a simple question, you know it's all hopeless.
Socretes = Socrates
Ping for later.
I just tell them to F. off.
Dammit - langusge=language...
Heeeee Heeeeeeee!
I still like the idea of using a 2x4 upside their heads.
I had opened the floodgates. Just like the courtiers in The Emperor's New Clothes, this friend had been trying to convince herself that Michelle was beautiful -- and she couldn't. Finally, though, in response to the media's implicit question of "Who're you going to believe -- me, or your lying eyes?" my friend, with a sigh of relief, could go with her own eyes. I hastened the eye-opening process by showing her Sally Quinn's ridiculous Mother's Day article about Michelle's arms, which left my friend reeling. For the first time ever, my friend is beginning to suspect that she's been had.
Even liberals know that they are being lied to deep inside!
GMTA
The best way to speak to a liberal is to shame them into admitting their support for hatred of traditional values and disdain for those of us who hold to them.
Take liberal gun control for instance. They don’t care about the minutia of how a firearm works, or what crime statistics say, or what logic dictates. They don’t like us, and they don’t trust us. They ALWAYS think the worst of us. Make them admit it openly. When that light is shined on those cockroaches, even a liberal cannot hide from it.
Maybe next post I’ll really tell you what I think. :)
But you are. The goals are generally good, the method is poison.
Do you want children to have a good education?
Of course you do, who doesn't want children to have a good education?
But the liberal method of ensuring children have a good education will simply ensure that no child has a good education.
Gibberish. Trying to convince/persuade liberals is a complete waste of time. You will sway them intellectually - and then they will act on the basis of their “feelings.” Liberals are children. They must simply be told what to do. Which is why they like big gubmint - to do exactly that.
“Liberalism is an infirmity that gives psychotics identity”
How is *anyone* ever supposed to combat that with “facts” or rationality?
I don’t bother trying to change their twisted minds.
I simply wait until they get “mugged” and have their own epiphany...*if* they ever do.
Most liberals are born with an irrational mind, averse to facts and logic, which are trumped by emotion and self-gratification.
I used to take this guy’s approach, until I figured out that it was 100% pointless. A hardcore liberal is simply incapable of linear thought.
Every action a leftist supports or take are geared solely toward satisfying the agenda of liberal-feel-goodism for thyself. Not one iota of thought is given to true consequence of policy or actions. Facts are an obstacle, and their sources are discredited and dismissed if they dare get in the way.
I don’t waste my time on conversion any longer. We need to be focused on their defeat.
Wrong. If facts mattered to liberals, they would not be liberals.
I have/had a friend that’s a flaming liberal and the epitome of a Bush-hater. Outside of politics he’s a nice guy. When discussing anything politically-related he becomes rude and hateful and angry. He described his own parents as “rabid” Democrats.
The best approach to dealing with people like this is to slowly back yourself out of their lives and lose touch with them. They’ll never come around to logical conservative thinking, just like I’ll never come around to being an AlGore liberal.
I’ve found that if you try to argue point versus point, they aren’t listening. They’ve already been indoctrinated by the media, and whatever facts you marshall, they don’t believe them.
So two things work. The first is to listen for the underlying assumptions, and go after those. They aren’t as well defended. Once you’ve cast doubt on the underlying assumption, the policy debate will eventually fall of its own weight. Maybe not now in time for you to declare victory in this conversation, but down the road. The second is like the writer says, listen politely, ask polite questions that eventually lead the person to the contradiction. Point out the contradiction, but don’t force him to admit you’re right. If you, again, try to claim victory, the defenses come up. Just lead him to the contradiction, let him see it himself, and then let that simmer until next time.
Good humor always helps. Good humor is the best persuader.
Eventually the fruit is ripe and it falls on its own time. Not before. You can’t force it. We think its an argument about facts, but its actually an argument about two ways of looking at life. You’ll never win arguing facts, because they interpret facts through another lens; so even if you can agree on the facts it doesn’t help much.
My SIL is a flaming, NEA lib (just to the right of “barking, moonbat, wingnut job).
I laugh out loud when she recites talking points. Then quickly go straight-faced and ask her, “Are you serious?”
After about 5 in a row, she gets the point and moves on to some other sucker.
I had the same thought, but this is simply used as a ruse, an icebreaker to soften up the subject to further conversation.
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