Posted on 03/20/2009 7:59:40 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
In a recent book review, Jerry Coyne, professor of ecology and evolution at the University of Chicago, admitted that the secular worldview of macroevolution (the development of complex life from “simpler” forms) is at odds with Christian faith...
(Excerpt) Read more at icr.org ...
Not really, the Bible is there to teach us something, and use of allegory, poetry and prose can easily serve Gods plan. Thinking the Bible isn’t 100% literal doesnt reduce its value one bit.
Well, sometimes these debates can be fun.
However, I reject the radical darwinists and the radical creationists as both sides have much that they can not explain -—
Which, I believe, is EXACTLY what God intended.
Humility is the proper course here.
We don't know.
To me, the “Tree of Knowledge” represented the fact that Adam and Eve did not remain humble, and tried to be like God.
There are those on both sides of this debate, IMHO, who should be careful NOT to follow the example of Adam and Eve.
Admit what we don't know and move on.
It's pretty much historical fact that the origin of the King James Bible is NOT the same origin of the Catholic bible...The King James OT was NOT translated from any Greek text...
To think you can get an exact, perfect, literal translation from old Hebrew to old Greek to Modern English is absurd.
Don't tell me...Tell it to God...He's the One who said He would preserve his word FOREVER...
Faith and science are fully compatible on the evolution issue. , in either discipline.
You mean FAITH in your religion...I on the other hand have faith in Jesus Christ and his word...And His word clearly rejects evolution...
This is not at all to say that we have all the answers
The fact is you don't have any of the answers...And don't stick God in the middle of it...God says one thing...Your religon sides with science and says another...
Science is the construction of a model that fits the facts.
It is a mathematical certainty that no model fits all the facts.
Faith is... faith.
Oh BROTHER...So God made the CATTLE in their own image, but the birds, snakes, fish, emu's, turtles and ADAM were made in God's image???
HaHa...Either way, you lose on evolution...
You mean the King James was made up? Out of thin air? What exactly do you mean?
There always seems to be a tension between an existent object and what is observed or surmised of that object. The observation always seems to chase the object...there is always an epistomological gap between knowledge and object and subsequent events or discoveries can change knowledge therefore making the object more mysterious than ever.
An allegory I read once had a man in search of truth come upon the maiden Reason. He asked her if a certain notion was true. She replied “oh no dear sir, I can only point out alternatives and inconsistencies; I am a virgin who can never marry with truth or prostitute herself with pre-sumption! Then she sang a little song...”P or q, q or p, of the 2 don’t ask if I ever knew...!” The poor man sat down in despair,”What can I ever really know, how shall I even lead my life?”
The maiden Reason looked at him severely but not without kindness, “I can never give you any certainty but I have three cousins who have helped those seekers such as you...Faith,Hope and Charity...Faith and Hope to give you certainty of what you already suspect is true and Charity can give you clues as to how to lead your life. Together they have given direction and succor to many.”
Well put.
Again, read your own post and then answer the question. You said that you believe every word of the bible. Here, the WORDS that YOU posted seem to indicate that certain animals were made in God’s image.
I’m just confused; you’re posts aren’t adding up. Please help me out.
“It’s pretty much historical fact that the origin of the King James Bible is NOT the same origin of the Catholic bible...The King James OT was NOT translated from any Greek text...”
The how do you explain the fact that it’s so similar, nearly identical in places, to the translated versions?
In response to my paraphrased bible quote “Only a fool says there is no God”, apart from simply agreeing with it, you further stated “Only a fool says the world is 6500 yrs. old.”
I attribute to you exactly what you said, and I said one is a biblical truth, and the other is your personal belief.
And screw your charge of not ‘debating honestly’. I’m being totally honest and open as to my thoughts about what you said. There are no tricks here. I think you’re projecting yourself here. I will be clear, if you don’t think I was. Your statement was not equal in scope to what I quoted from the bible. It is not equal in terms of its effect on a person’s salvation (in other words one is VERY relevant to a person’s salvation, and one is essentially immaterial), and it is not equal in terms of being supported by the Word of God.
I don’t know why you think that is being tricky or not debating honestly. I guess I didn’t give you the response you had wanted me to give you. It is apparent you were fishing for something else after you finally ask a question you never asked, but complained I didn’t answer.
I believe the earth is a lot younger than it is older. God did not create life to evolve through a process of pain and death. Death did not come into the world but by man’s sin, as the Bible explains. There was no millions of years of evolution’s ‘survival of the luckiest/fittest’ progress through death, that somehow man evolved into a sentient-enough creature God finally decided to reveal Himself to.
To believe that is to reject the biblical account of creation. If you believe that is wrong, why believe anything else in the Bible. Why believe the miracles? Why believe Jesus’ death did anything for you? Other people have made logical arguments as to why not to believe that it really happened the way it is described, so why not believe them?
The Catholics are LITERAL in the Mass, we “do this in remembrance of me” and we actually witness the miracle of the Last Supper at every Mass.
Catholics are LITERAL in our understanding of “Peter, you are Rock and upon this Rock I will build my Church. Whatsoever you bind on Earth shall be bound in Heaven, whatsoever you loose on Earth shall be loosed in Heaven”
Catholics did not, literally ADD A VERSE to the Lord's Prayer.
Catholics understand that “For Thine is the Kingdom, the Power and Glory, for ever and ever Amen” were NOT spoken by Jesus.
These words were ADDED by a Catholic Monk, as GLOSS, to a hand written parchment, as a comment on the Word and not intended as the Word itself.
Yes, Divine inspiration, but NOT Divine!
Biblical Literalism is OK with me, if you wish to follow that line.
However, NO WHERE in the Bible does the Bible say that all faith must come from the Bible.
In fact, all of the Books of the New Testament are ignorant of the existence of the other New Testament Books, they only refer back, individually, to the Old Testament.
This is because the Early Church did not really feel the need to convert an oral tradition into the written word for the first few centuries of the Church. When the works were reduced to writing, they were only rarely to be found in together, in one place.
For the Early Church, the BIBLE did not exist, so to insist that the Bible is the only way to salvation is to condemn the fast majority of Christians, from the First Easter to about 1500 AD, to Hell. Less than 1% of the Christians in those first 15 Centuries could even read, much less read the Bible, even less could AFFORD to own a Bible, as they were hand written, on parchment, and were PRICELESS.
So, the whole idea of Biblical Literalism is absurd to me.
If you wish to believe it, fine, but do not condemn those who do not believe it.
We are Christians too.
Your belief in literalism does not risk your soul unless you become so proud as to think that you can judge others, based on our disagreements with you. Here is something you should read. It was written over 100 years ago by a Presbyterian Bishop who converted to the Catholic Church: http://www.geocities.com/catholic_profide/wbible.htm
Evolution is not at odds with Christianity. Science is not at odds with Christianity. Anyone who posts such is knowledgeable in neither.
Interesting post. And thanks for posting it.
People have different perceptions and draw different conclusions from them,
enjoy yours.
So are you saying that those who believe in both science and the scientific evolution aren’t Christians?
Anything said in scripture was said by a man. A man with enough hubris to claim that he knows the unknowable.
Evolution requires death so that which evolved can replace that which was. Was this God's plan? Probably, but then he would have not had much choice if he wanted evolution to work.
What moron thinks they are the same?
Then maybe you’re the moron?
Cracks me up when people say evolution theory and Christianity can’t exist.
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