'Sanctions' sought in President's Eligibility case

WorldNet Daily ^ | Feb. 13, 2009 | Bob Unruh

[SvenMagnussen]

A high-powered team of Los Angeles attorneys representing President Obama in his effort to keep his birth certificate, college records and passport documents concealed from the public has suggested there should be "monetary sanctions" against a lawyer whose clients have brought a complaint alleging Obama doesn't qualify for the Oval Office under the Constitution's demand for a "natural born" citizen in that post.

The suggestion came in an exchange of e-mails and documents in a case brought by former presidential candidate Alan Keyes and others in California. The case originally sought to have the state's electors ordered to withhold their votes for Obama until his eligibility was established. Since his inauguration, it has been amended to seek a future requirement for a vetting process, in addition to the still-sought unveiling of Obama's records.

[Waco]

Hurry, get rid of 0, so we can get another paid holiday. sarcm

[Michael Michael]

I would love to get a source/link to this statement.

You won't get one because the source is someone's fevered imagination. The Hague convention on adoption says absolutely NOTHING with regard to nationality. And the Hague convention on nationality says that an adopted child can only lose their citizenship if the state recognizes the loss of citizenship as the result of adoption. And there was no provision under INA 1952 (or even INA 1986) for the loss of US citizenship as the result of adoption.

[Red Steel]

And what Cyropaedia told you about the intent and meaning of the words in the 14th Amendment:

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"Sorry, but it says born within the United States and "subject to the jurisdiction thereof". Here's what Sen. Trumball said to Sen Howard :

The provision is, that ‘all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.’ That means ‘subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.’ What do we mean by ‘complete jurisdiction thereof?’ Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.

Howard agreed. Trumball also said,

“It is only those persons who come completely within our jurisdiction, who are subject to our laws, that we think of making citizens…”

The "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" means only those that fell completely within the jurisdiction of the United States. Not "owing allegiance to anyone else" applies to native Americans as well foreigners from other countries.

During the debate over the Naturalization Act of 1870, there were Representatives that argued that the 14th Amendment did provide foreigners a de-facto right to obtain citizenship. This contention was not disputed."

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You couple what was said by Senators Howard and Trumbull, along with what SCOTUS said in the Slaughterhouse cases that I showed you, not to leave out what Senator Bingham's said about it, you are clearly wrong.

[canaan]

Or a PUMA that works in an SS office - you might post on some PUMA lists, Polarik.

[canaan]

Now, c’mon. People posting COLB issues on an eligibility thread aren’t “running around”. They’re right where they’re supposed to be. And doing what they’re supposed to be doing, being as it is an eligibility thread....

[DMZFrank]

I have just started to look thru this link
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/usc_sup_01_8.html

let me know if you find something I missed. I had something else, but I can’t find it either

god bless you for your great work

[Beckwith]

Re: whether or not he was ever granted INDONESIAN citizenship.

My understanding is that he had to have been an Indonesian citizen to attend the Besuki Primary School, since Indonesian state schools were restricted to citizens.

That is why Obama attended the Assissi School, a private school, prior to his adoption.

[Beckwith]

because ALL CITIZENSHIP of the United States is defined by the Fourteenth Amendment

What about the relevant federal law under U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), and Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325 (1939)? Casaelaw does play a role.

[canaan]

OK, well, there’s something I don’t understand then. What if Stanley, 2nd husband, and Jr. lived in Indonesia from when Jr. was 6 until.... forever. 2nd husband is already Indonesian, and let’s say Stanley becomes a citizen.

This whole time, Jr. (with 2 Indonesian parents) would have to remain an American citizen, living in a land he (in this scenario) considered his own, especiallly since he had only lived 6 years in America. In what way, at what point, would he ever be allowed to become an Indonesian?

My point is, there must be some way for a child to become an Indonesian citizen....? A foreign child adopted here in America becomes American. Why wouldn’t Indonesia have some sort of similar process for interested families?

[Beckwith]

Re: your statement, "I'd first have to care."

You sure are spending a lot of time banging away on that keyboard for someone who doesn't care.

You may or may not know what you're talking about, but it is quite clear to me that you are investing a lot of time and energy defending the Usurper.

This place is becoming infested with Obots.

[canaan]

The only thing I can think of that doesn’t jive for me, is that on the Soetero divorce papers, Stanley doesn’t ask Soetero to pick up any costs for raising Jr. He was 19 I think? and I believe it said he would still need help with education costs.

If Soetero had actually adopted Jr., it seems that she would have asked for child payments, even though he was 19, so that he could complete school. Then again, I believe that Obama divorce also didn’t ask for child payments from Obama. But it sure seems like it was more common back then for women to get alimony and child support, and she seems to have said no to it.

[Red Steel]

Re: your statement, [Double Mike] "I'd first have to care."

Oh, I forgot about this one...I was going to comment on it later. Good to see someone else notice his little slip of sincerity.

[DMZFrank]

Also check Title 8 US Code 1481 and 1483 Here is a link:

http://vlex.com/vid/19271710 and http://vlex.com/vid/19271706

Sec. 1481. Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized
citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions

http://law.onecle.com/uscode/8/1483.html

(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality - (1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or (2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or (3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if (A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States, or (B) such persons serve as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer; or (4)(A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or (B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required; or (5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State; or (6) making in the United States a formal written renunciation of nationality in such form as may be prescribed by, and before such officer as may be designated by, the Attorney General, whenever the United States shall be in a state of war and the Attorney General shall approve such renunciation as not contrary to the interests of national defense; or (7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction. (b) Whenever the loss of United States nationality is put in issue in any action or proceeding commenced on or after September 26, 1961 under, or by virtue of, the provisions of this chapter or any other Act, the burden shall be upon the person or party claiming that such loss occurred, to establish such claim by a preponderance of the evidence. Any person who commits or performs, or who has committed or performed, any act of expatriation under the provisions of this chapter or any other Act shall be presumed to have done so voluntarily, but such presumption may be rebutted upon a showing, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the act or acts committed or performed were not done voluntarily.

Sec. 1483. Restrictions on loss of nationality

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (6) and (7) of section 1481(a) of this title, no national of the United States can lose United States nationality under this chapter while within the United States or any of its outlying possessions, but loss of nationality shall result from the performance within the United States or any of its outlying possessions of any of the acts or the fulfillment of any of the conditions specified in this Part if and when the national thereafter takes up a residence outside the United States and its outlying possessions. (b) A national who within six months after attaining the age of eighteen years asserts his claim to United States nationality, in such manner as the Secretary of State shall by regulation prescribe, shall not be deemed to have lost United States nationality by the commission, prior to his eighteenth birthday, of any of the acts specified in paragraphs (3) and (5) of section 1481(a) of this title. AMENDMENTS 1996 - Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 104-208 struck out comma after “United States nationality”. 1994 - Pub. L. 103-416 in section catchline substituted “loss of nationality” for “expatriation”, in subsec. (a) substituted “lose United States nationality” for “expatriate himself, or be expatriated” and “loss of nationality” for “expatriation”, and in subsec. (b) substituted “lost United States nationality” for “expatriated himself”. 1988 - Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 100-525 amended Pub. L. 99-653. See 1986 Amendment note below. 1986 - Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 99-653, as amended by Pub. L. 100-525, substituted “paragraphs (3)” for “paragraphs (2), (4),”. 1981 - Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 97-116, Sec. 18(r)(1), substituted “paragraphs (6) and (7) of section 1481(a)” for “paragraphs (7), (8), and (9) of section 1481”. Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 97-116, Sec. 18(r)(2), substituted “and (5)” for “(5), and (6)”. EFFECTIVE DATE OF 1996 AMENDMENT Amendment by Pub. L. 104-208 effective as if included in the enactment of the Immigration and Nationality Technical Corrections Act of 1994, Pub. L. 103-416, see section 671(b)(14) of Pub. L. 104-208, set out as a note under section 1101 of this title. EFFECTIVE DATE OF 1988 AMENDMENT Amendment by Pub. L. 100-525 effective as if included in the enactment of the Immigration and Nationality Act Amendments of 1986, Pub. L. 99-653, see section 309(b)(15) of Pub. L. 102-232, set out as an Effective and Termination Dates of 1988 Amendments note under section 1101 of this title. EFFECTIVE DATE OF 1986 AMENDMENT Amendment by Pub. L. 99-653 applicable to actions taken before, on, or after Nov. 14, 1986, see section 23(g) of Pub. L. 99-653, set out as a note under section 1481 of this title. EFFECTIVE DATE OF 1981 AMENDMENT Amendment by Pub. L. 97-116 effective Dec. 29, 1981, see section 21(a) of Pub. L. 97-116, set out as a note under section 1101 of this title. RIGHT OF EXPATRIATION Provisions preserving the right and disavowal of foreign allegiance, see note under section 1481 of this title.

Last modified: June 14, 2006

[Beckwith]

All I have seen has been what amounts to a bunch of chimpanzees jumping up and down screeching and flailing their arms.

You're wasting you time with this troll DMZ. That statement proves he is an unhinged liberal who would scream if anyone referred to Obama as a chimpanzee.

I have been reading your exchanges and you two may disagree, but DMZFrank is presenting his arguments reasonably, as an adult, while Michael Michael resorts to childish personal attacks.

[Beckwith]

He has every right to privacy that every other citizen of the United States has.

Not once he announces he's a candidate for PUBLIC office.

[Beckwith]

I’ve been reading your posts.

Are you a paid Obama agent or a volunteer?

[Red Steel]

Well, that’s a first.

[Beckwith]

I’m ignoring you since it’s obvious you are an Obot.

Any posts I send your way is to bust your chops.

[Red Steel]

Me to Double Mike: Yes it does. The intent of the Constitutional clause natural born citizen is a safeguard against loyalties to another nation besides the United States as president. Obama once a citizen of Kenya defies the 'natural born citizen' clause.

How do you Obot out of this? Are you sure you posted to the correct guy?

[Beckwith]

I try to stay away from speculating on people’s motives and prefer a good source/link.