Posted on 12/29/2008 11:11:17 PM PST by goldstategop
n Part I, I made the argument that any woman who is married to a good man and who wants a happy marriage ought to consent to at least some form of sexual relations as much as possible. (Men need to understand that intercourse should not necessarily be the goal of every sexual encounter.)
In Part II, I advance the argument that a wife should do so even when she is not in the mood for sexual relations. I am talking about mood, not about times of emotional distress or illness.
Why?
Here are eight reasons for a woman not to allow not being in the mood for sex to determine whether she denies her husband sex.
1. If most women wait until they are in the mood before making love with their husband, many women will be waiting a month or more until they next have sex. When most women are young, and for some older women, spontaneously getting in the mood to have sex with the man they love can easily occur. But for most women, for myriad reasons -- female nature, childhood trauma, not feeling sexy, being preoccupied with some problem, fatigue after a day with the children and/or other work, just not being interested -- there is little comparable to a man’s “out of nowhere,” and seemingly constant, desire for sex.
2. Why would a loving, wise woman allow mood to determine whether or not she will give her husband one of the most important expressions of love she can show him? What else in life, of such significance, do we allow to be governed by mood?
What if your husband woke up one day and announced that he was not in the mood to go to work? If this happened a few times a year, any wife would have sympathy for her hardworking husband. But what if this happened as often as many wives announce that they are not in the mood to have sex? Most women would gradually stop respecting and therefore eventually stop loving such a man.
What woman would love a man who was so governed by feelings and moods that he allowed them to determine whether he would do something as important as go to work? Why do we assume that it is terribly irresponsible for a man to refuse to go to work because he is not in the mood, but a woman can -- indeed, ought to -- refuse sex because she is not in the mood? Why?
This brings us to the next reasons.
3. The baby boom generation elevated feelings to a status higher than codes of behavior. In determining how one ought to act, feelings, not some code higher than one’s feelings, became decisive: “No shoulds, no oughts.” In the case of sex, therefore, the only right time for a wife to have sex with her husband is when she feels like having it. She never “should” have it. But marriage and life are filled with “shoulds.”
4. Thus, in the past generation we have witnessed the demise of the concept of obligation in personal relations. We have been nurtured in a culture of rights, not a culture of obligations. To many women, especially among the best educated, the notion that a woman owes her husband sex seems absurd, if not actually immoral. They have been taught that such a sense of obligation renders her “property.” Of course, the very fact that she can always say “no” -- and that this “no” must be honored -- renders the “property” argument absurd. A woman is not “property” when she feels she owes her husband conjugal relations. She is simply wise enough to recognize that marriages based on mutual obligations -- as opposed to rights alone and certainly as opposed to moods -- are likely to be the best marriages.
5. Partially in response to the historical denigration of women’s worth, since the 1960s, there has been an idealization of women and their feelings. So, if a husband is in the mood for sex and the wife is not, her feelings are deemed of greater significance -- because women’s feelings are of more importance than men’s. One proof is that even if the roles are reversed -- she is in the mood for sex and he is not -- our sympathies again go to the woman and her feelings.
6. Yet another outgrowth of ’60s thinking is the notion that it is “hypocritical” or wrong in some other way to act contrary to one’s feelings. One should always act, post-’60s theory teaches, consistent with one’s feelings. Therefore, many women believe that it would simply be wrong to have sex with their husband when they are not in the mood to. Of course, most women never regard it as hypocritical and rightly regard it as admirable when they meet their child’s or parent’s or friend’s needs when they are not in the mood to do so. They do what is right in those cases, rather than what their mood dictates. Why not apply this attitude to sex with one’s husband? Given how important it is to most husbands, isn’t the payoff -- a happier, more communicative, and loving husband and a happier home -- worth it?
7. Many contemporary women have an almost exclusively romantic notion of sex: It should always be mutually desired and equally satisfying or one should not engage in it. Therefore, if a couple engages in sexual relations when he wants it and she does not, the act is “dehumanizing” and “mechanical.” Now, ideally, every time a husband and wife have sex, they would equally desire it and equally enjoy it. But, given the different sexual natures of men and women, this cannot always be the case. If it is romance a woman seeks -- and she has every reason to seek it -- it would help her to realize how much more romantic her husband and her marriage are likely to be if he is not regularly denied sex, even of the non-romantic variety.
8. In the rest of life, not just in marital sex, it is almost always a poor idea to allow feelings or mood to determine one’s behavior. Far wiser is to use behavior to shape one’s feelings. Act happy no matter what your mood and you will feel happier. Act loving and you will feel more loving. Act religious, no matter how deep your religious doubts, and you will feel more religious. Act generous even if you have a selfish nature, and you will end with a more a generous nature. With regard to virtually anything in life that is good for us, if we wait until we are in the mood to do it, we will wait too long.
The best solution to the problem of a wife not being in the mood is so simple that many women, after thinking about it, react with profound regret that they had not thought of it earlier in their marriage. As one bright and attractive woman in her 50s ruefully said to me, “Had I known this while I was married, he would never have divorced me.”
That solution is for a wife who loves her husband -- if she doesn’t love him, mood is not the problem -- to be guided by her mind, not her mood, in deciding whether to deny her husband sex.
If her husband is a decent man -- if he is not, nothing written here applies -- a woman will be rewarded many times over outside the bedroom (and if her man is smart, inside the bedroom as well) with a happy, open, grateful, loving, and faithful husband. That is a prospect that should get any rational woman into the mood more often.
It sure is. Sometimes, it’s as if everyone is miserable and wants everyone else to be miserable too.
Parenting is tough. It always has been from what my parents used to say. I had a great example of marriage, but so did my brothers, and there’s been divorce with a couple of them.
A sense of humor helps in most cases, imo.
My house is loud and messy too. We’ve learned to live in chaos :)
yes - my parents have a solid marriage.
My hubby’s folks split and both remarried.
He still carries baggage from that and never wanted his children to experience it.
The first thing I notice about him was that he was HOT.
But after that I was tickled pink to find he was FUNNY!
We have alot of fun.
Nice projection there. I think you started that one.
I have no answers for anyone but myself and my kids. Just living my life and trying to do the best I can.
Happy New Year to you and I mean that sincerely. We probably agree on a slew of other topics, just not this one.
ok - if I don’t get some zzz’s, it’ll be even more chaotic than normal in the morning.
It’s been nice chattin’ with ya!
Keep spreading the cheer!
Ahh. Yep. Heard it all before, constantly, from my brothers. So ok they were sorta right but still. ;) It wasn’t easy being the youngest either.
I always wanted sisters :) I always tell my girls, when they’re complaining, be happy you have 3 other sisters. At least they aren’t brothers.
I’ll get you the link. You’ll love this music then.
My parents were the same way. Our basement, back basement filled with non-perishables all the time...they never forgot what it felt like to be hungry. We used to tease them about it. My friends would come over and laugh about the grocery store in our back basement (or cellar as we called it).
Surprisingly, my mother was awesome with money too and not only did she leave the house but a nice stash in the safe (we convinced her to get the safe...she used the freezer prior to that). My Dad, the big spender, always told me the reason I got a college education and a wedding was because of my mother, lol.
He took me to buy a used car for my high school grad present (yeah, I know, heard it and still hear it from my brothers, I got a car, they didn’t). The entire way home, he kept telling me to let him handle it when my Mom heard the price because it wasn’t what they agreed on. So we drive up the street, she comes out, he tells her the price, then says, it’s what your daughter wanted. LOL and it’s a good, safe car. He knew he’d get her on the safe part, lol. One of my mom’s favorite sayings, which she said that day too, was that she wasn’t a bank and one of these days we were all going to realize that.
My Dad wanted an Irish Wake too. And he got one :) My eldest, only 9 at the time, couldn’t understand why his wake was like a party...told her it was what her Pop Pop wanted. He wanted us to celebrate his life, with beer, music, friends/family and more beer.
I just noticed the time! Damn, lol. I will be cranky in the morning before my coffee.
Enjoyed chatting with you too :)
That is great!
I liked your first post to me too; it sounds like you made a great choice.
I think you may have a point that women either need that quick reminder Dennis is giving (and is also in Dr. Laura’s Care and Feeding of Husbands book, with examples of neglected yet loving husbands that SHOULD make women cry), or they are unreachable.
I have heard of women REFUSING to read her book even as their husbands beg them to. What b*tches. Really, a simple thing like reading a book that might help them understand their husband’s simple desires is beneath them??
However, sometimes there are men that do not live by their stomachs and privates. THEN what’s a woman supposed to do? :)
In the Mood Bump!
You are out of your mind!
It's not just an Irish thing. My husband's family is more a British line (but from way back) and they are this way, too. I used to think it was a bad thing that I was emotional. (I cried at the beginning of Finding Nemo) Eventually, I told everyone they can just deal with it. I can't snuff out a good part of me just to be less emotional.
We have five and my husband says “no more”. Last month I got my monthly times off and was worried I was late. I didn’t want him mad about it. When I found out everything was fine, I told him. He said, “I wouldn’t be mad. I’d be broke. But, I’m broke already.”
My daughter is the second oldest, with four brothers. Any advice for her on survival? Of course, she is thrilled that her 6 year old brother asked the baby (4) to move out of her room into the “knights’” room with the other boys.
Many others have said that, although in Real Life, it's harder to tell.
However, in the interests of science, can you explain how a man who can't have an erection could be said to be in physical need of sexual relief?
Can’t a guy have a need for sex that isn’t physical? Like a woman?
I don’t know. That’s why I’m asking. The premise of the article, and of many comments, seems to be that men’s need for sex is purely biological, physical, ejaculatory. “If he doesn’t void his prostate on a regular basis, he could go insane.” (That’s from a thread on Mr. Prager’s previous article on this subject.)
So, I don’t know. Can a man have a desire for physical intimacy that doesn’t involve ejaculation? That is the question.
It’s unfortunate that Prager, twice divorced and (I believe) currently without a wife, wrote this article, this way.
He should have focused on the couple, first, then the husband, and then, possibly, the wife. I’m not sure that 2 articles on the wifely duty will do much good the next time he advocates for traditional, rather than same sex, marriage.
my dad was the one who couldn’t get over car prices.
He spent many years frozen in time as far as what he thought a decent car should cost.
I’m happy to see him soften his stance now and has recently bought some nifty new vehicles.
We didn’t have many children at my grandma’s wake.
I was the only one of my sisters at the time who had any - and she was still a baby then who had been left with her other grandma for the day.
I remember we had a good time, and that there were shots called “slippery nipples” involved.
We carried on like a bunch of drunken irish (which of course - we were!) and the restaurant was an irish establishment complete with live irish singer, who we accompanied - much to his delight I’m sure.
” (I cried at the beginning of Finding Nemo)”
Well it WAS very sad!
They had just found the perfect anenome to live in!
hundreds of little ones on the way.
sniff sniff
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