Posted on 11/11/2008 9:15:45 PM PST by GATOR NAVY
WASHINGTON — A coalition of atheists and agnostics wants the new White House to protect young military members from what they see as rampant religious discrimination in the services.
The Secular Coalition for America held a news conference Monday urging new rules against proselytizing and more training for chaplains on how to handle nonreligious troops.
"When they say ‘there are no atheists in foxholes’ it’s slanderous," said Wayne Adkins, a former Army first lieutenant who served in Iraq in 2004 and 2005. "To deny their existence is to deny that they serve."
The coalition also wants President-elect Obama to develop a new directive for all chaplains and commanders that eliminates public prayers from any mandatory-attendance events for troops and ensures the Defense Department will not endorse any single religion, or even the idea of religion over nonreligion.
Jason Torpy, a retired soldier and president of the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers, said his group isn’t opposed to Christianity or any other organized religion.
"We just recognize that religion and religious people get a lot of support from the military," he said. "What about the rest of us?"
Torpy said his group has fielded hundreds of complaints from servicemembers who believe they’ve been harassed, passed over for promotion or forced into retirement for not following the religious preferences of their commanding officers.
Adkins said equal opportunity office investigators in the service ignored his complaints about harassment and mistreatment because he was an atheist, which in part led to his decision to leave the service.
Army Maj. Laurel Williams, currently stationed in Florida, said she has filed complaints about military conventions and programs that are little more than Christian rallies, but received little or no response.
About one-fifth of current servicemembers identify themselves as having no religious preference, according to Defense Department statistics.
Only a small percentage of troops identify themselves as atheists or agnostics, but Torpy said that’s because they fear retribution. Without new rules, he said, there isn’t any guarantee they can avoid that kind of treatment.
"We’re as dedicated to the military as our Christian counterparts," he said. "We just want to serve our country, too."
Commanders definitely have more of an eye toward the pastoral skills of the chaplain than they do toward the strictly religious ministry.
The issue when it came down to it in federal court decades ago was the right of soldiers fully to practice their faith when placed by their nation in dangerous and/or separated locations. The court actually ruled that the chaplaincy was the best answer to the problem despite any areas where there might be an appearance of conflict between church and state.
If it is a responsibility to provide those soldiers with “beans and bullets,” so that they won’t die, then it’s also a responsibility to provide what they consider a critical need about life after death, should such occur.
My experience and my reading of history says that on the battlefield with death staring them in the face, believers are adamant about fully practicing their faith. I’m not just talking about “let us pray.” They want the full range: worship, prayer, minister, sacraments, funerals, fellowship, bible, teaching, preaching, and even Sunday School.
The person who becomes that religious leader occupies a very powerful position in the minds of those soldiers. It behooves any commander to have the confidence of any religious leader who rises to prominence among warriors. And THEY will have a religious leader, whether officially or unofficially.
Should have pinged you to #41
Same.
Should have pinged you to #41.
Yeppers, all will see & believe, and most will be praying for an end to the torment...
I could whine day and night (I used to) about being a minority, but I don’t. Athiests as well as all minorities need to understand that most “slights” are unintentional, most people don’t “join” a majority to persecute, and everyone has some issues. Most people are just trying to get along in life. The people that just want to stir up trouble, or to persecute, need to be addressed, and I am sure they are. Tolerance goes both ways.
It is man’s nature to rely less on God when things are going well and draw closer to Him in times of difficulty. I believe that this is a natural response even to those who claim to be atheists. The phrase, “there are no atheists in foxholes,” sprang from experience.
I cannot imagine how the military would operate without chaplains and I cannot begin to express my gratitude for what you and all of the other chaplains throughout history have done. Not only do you have all of the ministerial duties that other clergymen do, you have the incredible duty of counseling young men and women who are dealing with the guilt of taking human life even though it is justified.
The religion of Secular (atheistic) Humanism has a funny, and infuriating, legal standing.
It has been ruled that SH IS a religion when it comes to conscientious objection and protection from discrimination,
but NOT a religion when faced with the establishment clause.
How CONVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENIENT.
“Evolution is the greatest engine of atheism ever invented.” (Provine, W.B.)
It is written:
“ ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.’ “
So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
There is no doubt they intend to whine and use against the military the separation of church and state doctrine. It won’t be the first time.
They were wrong then, and they are wrong now. On the battlefield, the issue is winning the war. And an involved chaplain on the battlefield is a combat multiplier in that he has a direct impact on that unit’s esprit de corps.
You are correct. Despite the atheist’s claim in the article, the old adage, “There are no atheists in foxholes.” is a reflection of reality.
Make no mistake. There WILL be ministers on the battlefield. Does a commander wish to have such an important influence on the fighting spirit of his warriors outside his purview?
Exactly. If chaplains were eliminated, servicemen would naturally gravitate toward other servicemen who were grounded in their faith. Especially on the battlefield, it is imperative that people understand that they are not alone in their feelings of fear, grief and guilt -- they are going to talk with someone about it no matter what the atheists think.
If atheists can find inner peace without God, good for them; however, the reality remains that most people cannot and the stress of war only serves to magnify one's need for God.
The Normans captured Pope Leo IX in 1053.
Soviet Russian troops overran many nations.
North Vietnam's Viet Cong won over South Vietnam and the US military.
Religious adherence is no guarantee of victory against secular troops.
That being said, in my four years in the USAF I saw no religious discrimination against atheists or agnostics or any other religion (other than in basic training where Christians got to go to church on Sunday and everybody else had to clean the barracks).
Atheists are America's most despised religious minority, yet they are overrepresented in the US military, and underrepresented in the prison system; and not known for flying planes into skyscrapers.
funny how all the 'atheists' can be so sure of nothing...
I would suspect most are agnostic, and use the other term merely for political gain...
I was an athiest when I joined the Army. I also got saved in the Army and it had nothing to do with public prayer I’m happy to say.
One friend who was in the Navy, Vietnam era, use to say that during boot camp, if you didn't go to services on Sunday, you were given lots of dirty work to do, like clean the head. Knowing this, atheist would go to services just to avoid the inevitable latrine duty etc.
In addition to Christians being permitted to attend church on Sunday, the military chaplaincy also saw to it that Jews & other SD types were free on Saturdays and Muslims on Fridays.
The whole point of recognizing religious requirements is that one make decisions to accomodate that requirement. If one (an atheist, for example) has zero requirements, then it’s hardly fair to criticize the system for not accomodating that which doesn’t exist.
I don’t think atheists are the most despised religious minority. First, they claim not to be religious at all. Second, most outrageous cults are far more despised.
Since atheists have no practices, identifying marks, requirements, etc., they really are simply out of sight.
Atheists are the most despised religious minority according to polling. They are a very small % of the U.S. population, yet I constantly read about them in the conservative press. They seem some commentators favorite bogeyman, despite their ‘invisibility’ in prominence, numbers, influence, etc.
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