Red Herring...
There's a difference between (1) not mentioning any beliefs, and (2) preaching, "there is a God" OR "there is no God."
Posted on 11/11/2008 9:15:45 PM PST by GATOR NAVY
WASHINGTON — A coalition of atheists and agnostics wants the new White House to protect young military members from what they see as rampant religious discrimination in the services.
The Secular Coalition for America held a news conference Monday urging new rules against proselytizing and more training for chaplains on how to handle nonreligious troops.
"When they say ‘there are no atheists in foxholes’ it’s slanderous," said Wayne Adkins, a former Army first lieutenant who served in Iraq in 2004 and 2005. "To deny their existence is to deny that they serve."
The coalition also wants President-elect Obama to develop a new directive for all chaplains and commanders that eliminates public prayers from any mandatory-attendance events for troops and ensures the Defense Department will not endorse any single religion, or even the idea of religion over nonreligion.
Jason Torpy, a retired soldier and president of the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers, said his group isn’t opposed to Christianity or any other organized religion.
"We just recognize that religion and religious people get a lot of support from the military," he said. "What about the rest of us?"
Torpy said his group has fielded hundreds of complaints from servicemembers who believe they’ve been harassed, passed over for promotion or forced into retirement for not following the religious preferences of their commanding officers.
Adkins said equal opportunity office investigators in the service ignored his complaints about harassment and mistreatment because he was an atheist, which in part led to his decision to leave the service.
Army Maj. Laurel Williams, currently stationed in Florida, said she has filed complaints about military conventions and programs that are little more than Christian rallies, but received little or no response.
About one-fifth of current servicemembers identify themselves as having no religious preference, according to Defense Department statistics.
Only a small percentage of troops identify themselves as atheists or agnostics, but Torpy said that’s because they fear retribution. Without new rules, he said, there isn’t any guarantee they can avoid that kind of treatment.
"We’re as dedicated to the military as our Christian counterparts," he said. "We just want to serve our country, too."
“Atheism is NOT a religion, so it can’t be discriminated against.”
It is a creed and should not be discriminated against.
In the same way we tolerate other religions and Gods we don’t believe in.
They don’t believe in any. What’s the difference to Christians between Mohammed and “nothing”?
I never saw any evidence of this...
Thus making the antithesits' atheism the defacto state religion. No public reference to god, you will just have to bow to your atheist betters.
Like a quote I’ve read on here from various FReepers that have served, there aren’t any atheists when the bullets are flying right over your head and you’re scrunched up behind cover trying to avoid getting hit.
Well, if your fellow Christian countrymen like to say an evening prayer over the intercom, why do you care? why do you have to oppose them or make it so they cannot do that? How is that respectful of allowing them to practice their beliefs?
Hmmm...you might have misunderstood me.
This is our heritage.
This is our country.
This is our military.
Christians praying over the intercom doesn’t bother me at all.
You might check my posting history.
Have a good evening.
Secular troops cannot win wars against religious enemies.
Red Herring...
There's a difference between (1) not mentioning any beliefs, and (2) preaching, "there is a God" OR "there is no God."
I was replying to the snippet you copied. I saw your response, I totally agree with you. I was answering the snippet as you did.
Ok.
Thanks Secret Agent Man.
Yeah, sorry about that - stream of consciousness reading thing going on there.
Not a problem.
First, thank you for your input GATOR NAVY.
Although this is arguably like comparing apples and oranges the idea of the elimination of prayers and non-endorsement of religion in military circles does not complement, in my opinion, the spirit of the Fairness Doctrine that the Obama Administration also wants to promote. Given that the spreading of the gospel of Jesus Christ is typically at the heart of such controvercies, such anti-religous expression policies send the disturbing signal that people are "free" to discuss both sides of any issue except Christianity.
I think half the problem is the reliance of commanders upon chaplains - who are unavoidably a chimera of church wed to state - as though they are social workers.
I did, however, witness intimidation of Christians by the bureaucracy - especially in the latter years of my service. Increasingly, Christianity was singled out for more regulation, pressure, e-mail directives, and ridicule.
Some of this came about during the Clinton years, but it also began to accelerate during the tenure of GW Bush after Mickey Weinstein sued the Air Force.
In the late 90s, I began to witness this expressed towards Christians as opposed to atheists.
After 22 years in the Army - I can say that I never saw this as an issue. I was a practicing Christian and probably only came across 2 or 3 soldiers who denied God or did not have a profession. I did also check the no religious preference on the form and still have the dog tags with that on them. My issue was that I knew what I believed and so did not care who was talking/preaching. One of the two guys who professed no belief hung around us for the company - I would guess it was pretty lonely in his own little world by himself.
“Those who beat their swords into plows - plow for those who didn’t.”
- Anonymous
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