Judge Says University Can Deny Course Credit to Christian Graduates Taught With Creationism Texts

Fox News ^ | August 13, 2008

[Sopater]

A federal judge has ruled the University of California can deny course credit to Christian high school graduates who have been taught with textbooks that reject evolution and declare the Bible infallible, the San Francisco Chronicle reported.

U.S. District Judge James Otero of Los Angeles ruled Friday that the school's review committees did not discriminate against Christians because of religious viewpoints when it denied credit to those taught with certain religious textbooks, but instead made a legitimate claim that the texts failed to teach critical thinking and omitted important science and history topics.

Charles Robinson, the university's vice president for legal affairs, told the Chronicle that the ruling "confirms that UC may apply the same admissions standards to all students and to all high schools without regard to their religious affiliations."

[Marie2]

It’s also a statement of faith, come to think of it.

[Petronski]

Regardless, neither can be settled with science.

You're claiming science cannot exclude a 6000-year age of the earth?

[ColdWater]

written by 40 authors over 1500 years on three continents and in three languages, yet is internally consistent.

Only if you ignore the inconsistencies.

[Sopater]

I am.

[Petronski]

LOL

[ColdWater]

If the earth was only 6000 years old, man would have walked with the dinosaurs and it would have been recorded in the bible.

[tacticalogic]

That whole diatribe is an exercise in re-defining the word "secular". "Secular", meaning "not overtly religous" is now declared to be overtly religious and atheistic.

Orwellian sophistry. Freedom is slavery, war is peace, secular is religious.

[Sopater]

If the earth was only 6000 years old, man would have walked with the dinosaurs and it would have been recorded in the bible.

I suppose you're right.

Behold now, Behemoth, which I made as well as you;
He eats grass like an ox.
Behold now, his strength in his loins
And his power in the muscles of his belly.
He bends his tail like a cedar;
The sinews of his thighs are knit together.
His bones are tubes of bronze;
His limbs are like bars of iron.
He is the first of the ways of God;
Let his maker bring near his sword.
- Job 40:15-19

[ColdWater]

Elephant, Rhino, Hippo?

Thousands of dinosaurs running around and only one excerpt in the bible which could apply to one of the above.

[wintertime]

There are agreed upon guidlines for what constitutes academic credit for a subject and if those standards are not met there is no constitutional or inherent right for any person to demand credit anyway.
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If all colleges and universities were private, I would completely agree with you.

However....When government makes these decisions in their government institutions that are supported with tax money, these government universities run smack into the First Amendment. Government is not to establish a religion. When government rejects Christian courses then government is favoring and establishing an atheistic religious worldview and penalizing those of this sect of Christianity.

You are completely correct these Christians made the wrong demands. They should not have demanded that government give them credit for their courses.

These Christians instead should demand that all government schools be privatized. Do this and there is no opportunity for government to establish one religious worldview of some citizens and trash that of others.

Please remember that evolution is merely one in likely thousands of ways that government in its schools favors and establishes one religion over another.

[Gemsbok]

Be weary

[wintertime]

That whole diatribe is an exercise in re-defining the word “secular”. “Secular”, meaning “not overtly religous” is now declared to be overtly religious and atheistic.
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You missed something in my post. I used the term “SECULAR HUMANIST”!

Definition of Secular Humanism from Merriam Webster:

: humanism 3; especially : humanistic philosophy viewed as a nontheistic religion antagonistic to traditional religion

Government schools, (K-12 and universities) are establishing SECULAR HUMANISM! And...This is a non-theistic religion ( atheistic/agnostic) that is antagonistic to traditional religion.

[ColdWater]

When government rejects Christian courses

Government is NOT rejecting Christian courses. Universities are rejecting course that teach false science; false science that is not even supported in the Bible or by many Christians.

[cookcounty]

"graduates who have been taught with textbooks that reject evolution and declare the Bible infallible,"

Anyone: Is there such a thing as a high school text used in Christian schools that

a) reject evolution, and
b) declare the Bible infallible?

There are texts that raise some doubts about evolution and texts that suggest that the Creator is wise, but I'm not sure of anything as strongly worded as above even exists.

[wintertime]

Please describe how students discussing their relious beliefs constitutes an “establishment of religion” in violation of the Constitution.
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There are parents who do not want their children to be under police threat to show up a government school. Once in the compulsory government school the child is exposed to the religious proselytizing of his fellow students. They are also standing in a constant shower of government school Secular Humanism.

Ok...So ...The government is not establishing an “officially” organized religion. It is merely deliberating working to destroy the religious belief that children bring to the school and officially indoctrinating the children to the religion of Secular Humanism.

I would call this government disestablishment of the child's religion and establishment of the not officially organized religion of Secular Humanism.

From Merriam Webster:
humanism 3; especially : humanistic philosophy viewed as a nontheistic religion antagonistic to traditional religion

But there is more:

The government uses police threat to force children into its buildings and then forces them to SHUT UP!

The government uses police threat to force children into its buildings and then forbids them to freely publish!

The government uses police threat to force children into its buildings controls the child's speech and actions and forbids free exercise and expression of religious belief.

The government uses police threat to force children into its buildings and then forbids free assembly. It is the government who dictates to the child exactly with whom he will assemble.

The government uses police threat to force children into its buildings and then subjects them to a constant indoctrination in the religion of Secular Humanism, and works tirelessly to destroy the religious belief of the child.

All of the above are First Amendment violations of the Bill of Rights of our Constitution.

There is a solution: Begin the process of privatizing all government education. This includes government colleges and universities.

[wintertime]

Good post.

None of it is religiously neutral.

The government is teaching children the following:

1) Religion is to be hidden like some type of bathroom activity.

2) The child's religion is irrelevant and unnecessary in the evaluation and synthesis of culture and of the body of human knowledge.

3) The child is taught to be indifferent to a religious belief in God.

4) The government teaches the child to be silent about religion in the face of government authority and elsewhere.

None of what you posted is not religiously neutral. It is hostile to religion. It is not neutral in content or consequences.

Definition of Secular Humanism ( Merriam Webster):

: humanism 3; especially : humanistic philosophy viewed as a nontheistic religion antagonistic to traditional religion

[luckystarmom]

One of the elders in my church has had 3 of his kids at the school, and he loves it. My son and my daughters have been going to summer camps, and so far it has all been wonderful. They pray before and at the end of each class. They are very kind to my daughter who has special needs. They don’t have a Gay/Lesbian clubs or “Day of Silence” like the Catholic schools do in our area.

My daughters go to a Christian school that uses secular books and Bible books, and it is a fantastic very genuine school. I think it is in the way the school handles the material.

My son used to go to a Christian school that solely relied on Christian books, and we ended up pulling him out of that school and putting him in public. At that school, Pokemon and Harry Potter were evil. They also did not treat kids with special needs well, and they pushed lots of parents to put their kids on Ritalin.

[cookcounty]

The school should inform UC that their graduates and those of other schools teaching anthropogenic global warming in their textbooks need not apply for teaching positions since their school neither comprehends nor properly applies the scientific method, and are thus beneath acceptable academic standards.

[tacticalogic]

There is a solution: Begin the process of privatizing all government education.

So how much money do you want?

[tacticalogic]

You missed something in my post. I used the term “SECULAR HUMANIST”!

I don't think I missed anything.

There can be only "god-centered" or "godless", neither of which are "god-neutral", so there is not and can be no "god-neutral". "Godless" is the same as "atheist" so everywhere you see the word "secular" you should scratch it out and replace it with "atheist".