Posted on 08/13/2008 9:44:45 AM PDT by Sopater
A federal judge has ruled the University of California can deny course credit to Christian high school graduates who have been taught with textbooks that reject evolution and declare the Bible infallible, the San Francisco Chronicle reported.
U.S. District Judge James Otero of Los Angeles ruled Friday that the school's review committees did not discriminate against Christians because of religious viewpoints when it denied credit to those taught with certain religious textbooks, but instead made a legitimate claim that the texts failed to teach critical thinking and omitted important science and history topics.
Charles Robinson, the university's vice president for legal affairs, told the Chronicle that the ruling "confirms that UC may apply the same admissions standards to all students and to all high schools without regard to their religious affiliations."
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
More than seven.
Seen it already. Any document or thought repeatedly touched by man (the bible has been much more than touched) is not inerrant. Denominations and their versions of belief in the bible are creations of man so please don’t try to tell me that the emperor Constatine or King James the First were divinely inspired; they directed their bishops on the path and beliefs that were acceptable and even on which books were to be included and which excluded. I have been told any number of proseletyzers that if I don’t believe in the tenants of a particular denomination then I will go to hell. The denomination across the street will also tell me that if I don’t follow their tenants and interpretations of scripture then I will go to hell. If I want to determine what the one true path or denomination is I could go to the new testament and find that Christ told Peter that upon the rock Christ’s church would be built, by Peter. Taking that literally it means that the only true church is the Catholic church founded by Christ through Peter and if you are not a Catholic then you are not a true believer. Fortunately, under our constitution we are given the right to believe in and follow any religious denomination we want to; we hold our own personal beliefs or believe in nothing at all. Our founders, as religious as most of them were, knew that we could not exist as a free constitutional republic for long if we allowed any one belief system to gain political power as it had repeatedly throughout European history.
I asked you to ballpark it. You refused.
I have ballparked it.
Those are my problems with young earth creationist.
You still insist that man has corrupted the word of God, and deny the inerrancy.
You don’t address, because it doesn’t fit your preconceived conclusion,
the original texts in Hebrew and Greek that were translated to other languages VERY early on and may be verified against, the 6000 scrolls that can be verified against, and the early church founders’ (50-150 AD) letters to each other, from which the Gospel can be nearly totally reconstructed.
Do you see how impossible it would be to alter the text?
All 6000 originals in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, modified/destroyed and replaced.
All the early translations modified (in the translated languages) and replaced.
All the letters of the church founders, modified & replaced.
And all of this over 50 lifetimes?
Is this what you’re asserting?
What we have in our hands, friend, IS THE WORD OF GOD.
Colleges and universities including religious-based colleges regularly deny credits for any number of courses. There are agreed upon guidlines for what constitutes academic credit for a subject and if those standards are not met there is no constitutional or inherent right for any person to demand credit anyway. My university would not accept as a biology course a course that only required a reading of the theory of evolution any more than it would accept just having read the bible as credit for comparative religion.
What you have in your hands is paper and ink.
The earth is "at least ten million" years old is not a "large range of numbers?" Ten million to infinity is not a large range?
It's a non-answer.
You are projecting. You refuse to exclude the young-earth stuff. Six thousand to 4.5 million excludes nothing.
That sir, will get you a flunking grade.
I am not in your classroom and you are in no position to grade me.
Let’s turn that around and say that you won’t accept or address my denial of inerrancy because it doesnn’t fit your preconceived conclusion or beliefs.
As far as altering the texts, where is the proof that those 6000 scrolls were the first and only writings or that they were translated correctly from the oral traditions that preceded written texts. Actually, many texts were destroyed in the burning of the Library of Alexandria, the burning of the temple, the many conquests of the ancient Jewish state. Just because early writings survived does not mean they are the originals or that they came down untouched by man. Those texts in most if not all cases were not written by the hand of the original prophets or biblical entities. Who wrote the scrolls? Other men after the fact.
There are plenty of texts from the time (50-150 AD) that detail the political influence of the emperor in assembling the biblical texts and did God verify that the translators verified the right documents and writings? Most of what survived of the original writings are copies over many years and iterations of the originals so that they could be passed on to others. That is how the word was passed in ancient times and it is rare that any original document survived. Aside from that, the original writers, phrophets, desciples etc. were also men and those men frequently wrote about the same subject with an entirely different point of view, lesson or narration. Who was right? Even multiple persons who were there with Christ give different versions and interpretations. Who was right?
Again, it is not the various interpretations of the book or the specific denominational belief that is important, it is the faith and belief in God and Christ and his general teachings. You put your faith and belief in God and not in works of man.
".. Federal Judicial Service:
Judge, U. S. District Court, Central District of California
Nominated by George W. Bush on January 7, 2003, to a seat vacated by Richard A. Paez; Confirmed by the Senate on February 10, 2003, and received
commission on February 12, 2003..."
OK, you reject the inerrancy of the Bible,
written by 40 authors over 1500 years on three continents and in three languages, yet is internally consistent.
All I can conclude is that there is something in there that pisses you off.
I cast not pearls before swine any longer.
My answer is “more than ten million.”
Your answer is a copout.
Atheism is not a religion? Wow! Now that does show a profound ignorance of Supreme Court rulings. I hope you are not an attorney.
The Supreme Court disagrees with you. The Supremes consider atheism to be a religion. Please do a Google on the words: "Supreme Court Atheism is Religion"
There are only two possible broad worldviews regarding religious belief that any school can take: God-centered and godless. Within those two worldviews ( godless and God-centered) there are of course many subsets.
Neither worldview is religiously neutral both will have profound consequences for the child. The consequences of either worldview are not religiously, politically, or culturally neutral for the child or our nation.
The government by **establishing** the godless worldview in its schools preaches in many overt and subtle ways the religion of atheistic Secular Humanism. The government teaches the child that his or her personal religion is irrelevant, insignificant, and of little worth in evaluating the lessons taught in their school about culture and collective human knowledge. Since the government school is silent about their religion and forbids religious expression and practice throughout the day, the government is teaching children that their religion must be hidden away as if it were somehow shameful.
In K-12 government schools children who are under police threat to be confined in government school buildings are punished for exercising their First Amendment Rights. They are forbidden to speak, freely publish or practice their religion during nearly the entire day. It is the government who dictates to the child exactly with whom the child will assemble. This is true for **all** children whose parents can not ransom them from the government's grip by paying extra to send the child to private school or homeschool.
If the child were to resist the government's suppression of his First Amendment Rights. The government will punish him. If he resists to a sufficient level police will arrest him, courts will try him, and he will be sent to prison.
While government schools do allow some limited time for free speech and other First Amendment Rights for most of the day the child is ordered by the government to be silent.
On the college and university level there are not as many First Amendment concerns since attendance is voluntary...however... there is still the First Amendment problem of religious neutrality. NO school is religiously neutral. This includes colleges and universities.
Our nation's government colleges and universities are currently godless in their worldview and this is not religiously neutral in content or consequences. When government is running colleges and universities, the government will be establishing some form of religious belief. At the moment it is atheism.
Finally,....Taxpayers are under police threat to pay for a government religious worldview ( godlessness or atheism)that is preached daily in the government schools.
While the government can require citizens to pay for many services, we are protected by the First Amendment from having to pay taxes for government established religion. Unfortunately, the First Amendment is ignored with regard to the establishment of the government religion of atheism in government schools.
Government schools are an abomination! They are an insult to the First Amendment and to freedom of conscience. Government K-12 schools are especially egregious since many children are under police threat to attend them.
Solution: Begin the process of privatizing government education K-graduate school.
If you support government education there is one way to resolve the conundrum. We need another constitutional amendment. It should read:
"Government can establish the religion of atheism and an atheistic worldview in it compulsory ( police, court, and foster care threat) schools. It can order children to be silent throughout the day. The government will determine with whom the child will assemble during the day. The government can forbid religious practice and expression of the child during most of the day. And the government will teach all subjects from an atheistic and godless point of view. The government can and will use armed police if taxpayers are unwilling to pay for the indoctrination of children in the government religion of godlessness. "
That is a matter of opinion.
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