Skip to comments.'I'm scared to death' of Ivins, Duley testifies (Anthrax)
Posted on 08/05/2008 12:38:26 PM PDT by Shermy
Jean Duley testified that she was "scared to death" of Bruce Ivins after he left her a string of harassing phone messages, according to an audio recording taken during a July 24 peace order hearing.
Duley, 45, told Judge Milnor Roberts that Ivins planned to "go out in a blaze of glory," had bought a bulletproof vest and a gun and planned to kill his co-workers.
The audio recording was obtained by The Frederick News-Post on Monday.
Duley told the court she got to know Ivins while running group and individual counseling sessions at the Comprehensive Counseling Associates in Frederick where she worked as the program director.
When questioned by her attorney Mary McGuirk Drawbaugh, Duley said she knew him for at least the past six months and told the court she saw him once a week.
Drawbaugh: "And during the course of your involvement with him, professionally, did he ever make any threats that were what you would consider to be homicidal in nature?"
Drawbaugh: "OK. And did he make any threats that you would consider to be threatening to your personal safety during the course of those six months?"
Duley: "Yes. I do."
During a July 9 group [witenesses?] session, Duley described Ivins as "extremely agitated" and "out of control." When she asked him what was going on, he told the group "a very long and detailed homicidal plan" including killing his co-workers and roaming the streets of Frederick trying to pick a fight with somebody so that he could stab the person.
Since he was "about to be indicted on capital murder charges he was going to go out in a blaze of glory that he was going to take everybody out with him. ... That they weren't going to take him out without a fight," she told the court.
Duley was concerned because she said she knew him so well, so she tried to get as many details about the attacks as possible. The next day, July 10, she called the Frederick Police Department who removed him from USAMRIID at Fort Detrick and had him committed to Frederick Memorial Hospital.
On July 11, he called her twice just before 4:30 a.m. She told the court the first message was just "sort of a ranting, blaming me for having this done to him. It was sort of just rambling." In the second message Ivins told her "obviously we no longer have a therapeutic relationship and how could I do this to him." [smart guy]
After he was transferred to Sheppard Pratt Health System, a psychiatric hospital in Baltimore, he called her again at 11:25 a.m. July 12.
"That one was rather scary," Duley said in the recording. "He very calmly thanked me for ruining his life and opening ... allowing the FBI to now be able to prosecute him for the murders and that it was all my fault. And "it's going to be my fault that they can now get him."
Drawbaugh did not enter the telephone recordings into evidence for the court because FBI agents had taken them for their investigation.
Ivins was supposed to have a permanent commitment hearing at Sheppard Pratt, but Duley said his attorney advised him to check himself in voluntarily so that he may leave when he wished. Drawbaugh told the court he probably was being released from the hospital as the hearing was going on. --
She decided to get the peace order after an FBI agent working the case suggested it.
Drawbaugh: "At this time, Ms. Duley, are you fearful for your personal safety?"
Duley: "I am and so is the FBI."
Drawbaugh: "OK. And can you tell the court why it is based on what you have testified to during the course of since July 9 that you are fearful of your safety?"
Duley: "As far back as the year 2000, the respondent has actually attempted to murder several other people either through poisoning. He is a revenge killer. When he feels he that he has been slighted or has had ... especially towards women ... he plots and actually tries to carry out revenge killing. He has been forensically diagnosed by several top psychiatrists as a sociopathic homicidal killer."
Roberts granted the temporary peace order and set a hearing for a final peace order Thursday -- a day before Duley was set to testify against Ivins before a federal grand jury.
The court ordered Ivins not to abuse or contact Duley or go to her home or job. The order was dismissed Thursday after Ivins' apparent suicide.
Drawbaugh: "Is there anything further that you think Judge Roberts needs to know with regards to the situation before he makes his decision?"
Duley: "I'm scared to death."
While the FBI waits to formally release its evidence against Bruce E. Ivins, the microbiologist it claims to have linked to the anthrax mailings seven years ago who killed himself on July 29, the public is getting a sneak peek by way of federal leaks to the media. The leaks are piling up almost too fast to keep track of. Some seem damning, others perplexing, but the pause is creating a strange void in which leaks are followed by rebuttals from Ivins' colleagues and his attorney (who steadfastly denies his client had any role in the attacks) and then followed by more leaks. The result leaves neither Ivins nor the FBI looking good.
Most notably, unnamed federal officials are telling media outlets that the FBI used new DNA technology to link the anthrax that killed five people in 2001 to anthrax handled by Ivins in his federal lab. But scientists who knew Ivins and some who didn't tell TIME this is not a simple matter, technically speaking.
In the face of this challenge, Ivins' lawyer says, the FBI stalked his client in pursuit of evidence he didn't have, driving him to drink and to depression. Ivins took at least two polygraph tests, says attorney Paul Kemp, and apparently passed both of them. "That certainly was our impression," he says. "That's certainly what he was told."
Contrary to previous media reports, Kemp says his client had not been negotiating a plea agreement at the time of his death. And indeed, contrary to some suggestions in initial reports, the grand jury investigating the case was at least a few weeks from handing down any kind of indictment. Kemp and Ivins met with the FBI four or five times beginning last December, after the bureau informed Ivins that "he could be a suspect," Kemp says. Most recently Kemp says he met with agents the day Ivins committed suicide, not knowing he was already dead.
Ivins was "totally responsive to every single question and never refused to answer," Kemp says. Over the past seven years, before he was a suspect in the case, Ivins had been interviewed 20 to 25 times in the case. He had cooperated fully and had his security clearances renewed, Kemp says.
Ping, local story.
Funny, the “theripist” seems to have been cooperating (or is it coordinating?) with the FBI for some time before she sought the peace order.
And “He has been forensically diagnosed by several top psychiatrists as a sociopathic homicidal killer.” Where are these “top” psychiatrists? Why did Duley since lose her job?
And where is the bullet proof vest and “gun” Ivins supposedly purchased?
There is something wrong with this entire story.
Even if the guy was not guilty, he may have been something of a whackjob. I wonder if he is going to be sainted by some here on FR, as some other previous whackjobs have been.
the shrink is often the least sane person in the room.
Ivins had been interviewed 20 to 25 times in the case
Now if that doesn't wear someone down I have no idea what will.
I was rattled after one meeting with the IRS about 20 years ago.
The FBI’s attempt to blame it all on Steve Hatfill finally fell through. The case against Ivins seems to depend largely on the uncorroborated testimony of Duley. It’s convenient for the government that Ivins is dead, but they may need at least a little evidence before they can call the case closed. If this breaks down, what next? Blame it on Richard Jewell?
Pardon me for being extremely skeptical. I don’t know whether this guy is “the guy” or not, but the FBI doesn’t have a lot of credibility with me on the subject. After harassing the other “guy” for many years, and then finally being forced to admit his innocence and pay him big bucks, they turn around and point to this guy now. Granted, he sounds like a seriously disturbed individual, however, I would speculate that effectively being mounted on a slide and put under the big fibby microscope might make anybody go moonbatty...
“There is something wrong with this entire story.”
Watching the sorority/Princeton story evolve yesterday was disturbing yet amusing.
Maybe the the feds were testing out the weakest story lines since they found no vest and gun, Duley is in hiding though her fiance says she’s “a hero”, there are no such “top psychiatrists”, they didn’t test the anthrax but anthrax that grew in Stevens’ blood (so the stories seem to say), the Beecher “article” on the lack of additives is flimsy, and most importantly IMO, all sorts of people are willing to stand up for Ivins in the press, and use their names, no anonymity.
It does appear to be quite possible that he lost it towards the end of his life, but that COULD very well be because he was going to be officially charged with being a mass murderer when he wasn't, which I suspect would push a lot of people over the edge.
But as a general rule, it's extremely difficult for a true "whackjob" to be cleared for decades to work in a place such as the USAMRIID at Ft. Detrick. If he was nuts, he did an amazing job of hiding it from his family, friends, co-workers, and the government which gave him the Decoration for Exceptional Civilian Service.
Some people who worked closely with him have already gone on record as saying that they think this whole thing is a bunch of bunk.
Here’s a good site for other links on Duley’s criminal history, etc.
Also turns out Duley is a registered Democrat. Why target Daschle and Leahy?
Why the New York Post and not the more famous New York Times?
Shermy, one’s first guess would be that the FBI concocted this entire thing to make this all go away and cover up the incompetent handling of it from the beginning.
But if that’s the case, why in the world would they do it SO INCOMPETENTLY????
“But if thats the case, why in the world would they do it SO INCOMPETENTLY????”
It is so much like how the Hatfill case transpired, but more quickly. The suspect insiders who reportedly heard the target say such and the like. The obsessive leaking. The laughable evidence and conduct (remember the draining of lakes?) that the leakers seem unaware is laughable on its face. The supposed “suspicious conduct” of the target even when they know they are being surveilled.
Most of all, the weird connect the dots coincidences. Remember Hatfill and Greendale and Zimbabwe? The sorority issue on Ivins takes the cake for BS unless the feds reveal something else connecting the sorority.
“He has been forensically diagnosed by several top psychiatrists as a sociopathic homicidal killer.”
I’ve been thinking about this one. IN her written application she only mentions Dr. David Irwin, Ivins’ M.D.
But at court she made the above statement. I think there are only two possibilities.
1. She’s lying.
2. The FBI told her that. The FBI told her their “forensic” psychiatrists made that analysis. She should be asked if it was so, and the FBI should be asked if what they told Duley was accurate.
Well, Shermy, it’s just plain scary that we have people in the FBI who are this dumb. Not to mention how evil it is to do such things.
So did Hatfill if what they said about him (now known to be mostly if not entirely false) was taken at face value. If it is true that someone "seriously disturbed" can work his entire life at a biological warfare facility and pass all the background checks, then we have a lot bigger problem than a bit of corruption and incompetence at the FBI.
Personally, I still think it is far more likely that the al Qaeda spokesperson who supposedly worked a few feet away in the same lab was the culprit (the FBI apparently ruled him out because his father was an Iraqi diplomat, and we know the Iraqis weren't involved because it violates the postulate that the Iraqis weren't involved).
This doesn’t sound like a guy who had ever seen weaponized anthrax before - never mind filled an envelope with it:
For now they, Ivins’ family and his co-workers are left wondering and in some cases replaying the past. Ellen Byrne, a wife of one of his colleagues, remembers talking to Ivins at a party. It was just after the anthrax had been sent through the mail. She said he told her he was fascinated by how perfect the powder is. “He was sitting there,” Byrne said. “He was leaning over the table and I was on the other side of the table. And he leaned forward and was just really excited at how finely milled the powder was.”She said Ivins gestured with his hands like he was trying to weigh it on a scale. He had long fingers, big knuckles.Ivins excitedly told Byrne: “It couldn’t even be weighed it just hovered,” Byrne remembers Ivins saying. “That was the word he used ‘hovered.’ “
Ditto what you wrote. Doubtful that we will ever know the whole truth on this one. I don’t generally consider myself to be a conspiracy monger (but who does, really?), but there are just too many things that don’t add up at all about the whole anthrax issue.
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