Posted on 05/22/2008 3:07:07 PM PDT by GourmetDan
WORKING-CLASS students have lower IQs than those from wealthier backgrounds and should not be expected to win places at top universities, an academic has claimed. Bruce Charlton, an evolutionary psychiatrist at Newcastle University, has written a paper asserting the reason why fewer students from poor families are admitted to Oxford or Cambridge is not because of social prejudice, but lack of ability.
He suggests that low numbers of working-class students at elite universities is the "natural outcome" of "substantial" IQ differences between classes.... His claims could trigger an outcry similar to that faced by the Nobel prize-winning geneticist James Watson, who was forced to apologise after claiming that African and Caribbean workers were "demonstrably less able" than white ones.
However, Dr Charlton argues it is precisely the fear of creating controversy that prevents other academics taking the same line.
He said: "That is why such obvious scientific truths have not so far been stated clearly, or have actually been denied.
"(This theory is] accepted among those who know and understand the research."
“Apparently evolutionists all know this but are keeping quiet about it.” GDan Post#6
"What I found interesting is that this is 'accepted by those who know and understand the research', yet these same people are not willing to say so." GDan Post #6 Statements in quotes are Dr. Charlton's comments.
“Apparently evolutionists all believe this but are keeping quiet about it.” GDan Post#51
"What I found interesting is that Dr. Charlton claims that this is ‘accepted by those who know and understand the research’, yet these same people are not willing to say so." GDan Post #51
“According to Dr. Charlton, you are in the denier camp. If that infuriates you, take it up w/ him.” GDan Post#61
So you aren't in the denier camp? Obviously this was according to Dr. Charlton.
“It is obvious that Dr. C believes this, what is not so obvious is your contention that all “evolutionists” believe this.” Me Post#65
"No YOU (GDan) apparently believe this." allmendream Post#51
“but he [Dr. C] made some statements about what evolutionists believe and either don't say or just deny. You're denying it, which is what he said evolutionists did.” GDan Post#69
Obviously, this is what Dr. Charlton said evolutionists would do. Your beef is w/ Dr. Charton. Not w/ me.
“you insist on misrepresenting me and claiming that I am saying these things when I am not.” GDan Post#87 (please refer to Post #6 and #51, yes, they are exactly the same, you repeat yourself, and then deny you said it.)
Nope, every time I was referring to Dr. Charlston's comments. Now you have been reduced to selective quoting to continue to demonize and misrepresent me.
It is an evolutionist, Dr. Charlton who mad the point, "That is why such obvious scientific truths have not so far been stated clearly, or have actually been denied." and "(This theory is] accepted among those who know and understand the research."
I just tried plumber’s putty to fix a leak. It did not work. I am a stupid would be plumber. My PIQ < 100.
IQ is over-rated anyway.
But, on the other hand, I try to imagine the quintessential “average” person and then consider that half of the population is dumber that s/he is. Sorta scary.
When the ex hauled ass a few years back, she told me she was so sick and tired of me being the smartest person in the house. Knowing her boyfriend at the time, I told her she was soon to discover what a burden that status brings. She didn’t get it.
My view: Individual differences in intelligence (probably more apparent than actual anyway) are so pervasive within groups as to render extrapolation almost meaningless and certainly a source of bigotry and snobbishness.
I stumbled on a chart/list of jobs/professions by average IQ. Lawyers and MDs had the highest highs and the highest lows. The lawyers’ lows were just a bit lower than the Docs. Natural scientists were close. University professors in the soft sciences had the same lows as their “hard” brethren, but much lower highs, about 10 points. Real estate agents, comparatively speaking, had the highest highs and the lowest lows. Along with custodial workers (janitors), some of the least bright were elementary school PE instructors.
But how dumb is the working class, anyway? No federal taxes, no waking up in the middle of the night wondering if they dug that ditch deeply enough or poured that concrete at the right temperature. None of that nice anxiety.
And professionals are smart?
BTW, what the heck is the “working class?” I get all fired up and tingly in my legs when I hear HRC and O extolling my virtue, my virtue, for getting up every morning and working hard for my family, but then I find out they don’t include me.
I am crestfallen.
But despite the emotional pain of not fitting in, I still work 10 or 12 hour days. But I’m not a “working person.”
I guess dumb people miss out on some good books and being a FReeper. I doubt that the sunset, a smiling curvy woman, or the stars are prettier to smart people. But, how would I know?
I do know that conservatives, as a group, tend to be cerebral, driven by logic. Liberals are, generally (not their manipulative masters), visceral, gushy, touchy, very selfish, overly sensitive, insecure and on a quest for immediate emotional satiation. Liberals over thirty bore the joy of life out of me. I like the younger ones.
They are what I was.
To me, it was interesting that Dr. Charlton said, ""That is why such obvious scientific truths have not so far been stated clearly, or have actually been denied." and "(This theory is] accepted among those who know and understand the research."
This is an evolutionist speaking about 'obvious scientific truths' that are accepted belief in 'scientific' circles. He also claims that these 'obvious scientific truths' are being denied.
Well said.
At least your not an Omega, that could get you in trouble.:^)
This is the UK caste system on display. The Brits just don’t understand how in the US you can be anything you want to be, and nobody can stop you. Over there, if you are blue collar, you are destined to spend the rest of your life in the blue collar class.
Spoken like a genuine American!
This is the UK caste system on display. The Brits just don’t understand how in the US you can be anything you want to be, and nobody can stop you. Over there, if you are blue collar, you are destined to spend the rest of your life in the blue collar class.
Oh the evolutionists are a clever bunch, they cannot with candor state the obvious of what they actually believe. Consider their system they have created wherein they have become the 'gods' of fitness for humanity. They with their high IQ's are first in line for liberal handouts, and through their system they have cleverly devised, we now have a top down food chain of never ending lessor groups feeding off the whole of humanity, right down to that distant relative the chimp. They first and foremost feed this theology of fittness based upon their own measurement tables of mind power using their created IQ numbers.
Most criminal masterminds also have above average IQ's so what good did that higher supposed intelligence do for them or their victims.
Good Lord! The evolution crap gets old.
The Good Lord has been keeping notes regarding the grand scheme of the evolution crap. It is just another of those things that Christ described 'these things need be'. I have NO doubt the Good Lord has a different measuring scale than the evolutionists regarding IQ.
Exactly. All of this IQ worship is fundamentally flawed. That's why I noted the superiority of wisdom in post #29. Wisdom is available to all, regardless of IQ.
Have you ever read any of 'The Doorway Papers' by Arthur C. Custance? 'Noah's Three Sons' has some interesting information about the relative contributions of the various races through Shem, Ham and Japheth. The technology of the Hamitic peoples is especially interesting. Gift of knowledge there.
A very fine observation. We should keep what you said in mind when, say, evaluating the writings of the 'seminal' thinkers of Darwinism, who were almost all of the British upper-caste. The attitude that you describe makes itself manifestly clear in their books. For, in applying their Darwinism to man (eg, Fisher), the underlying implication that comes through is that the castes--upper and lower--are variations. Variations in the sense of evolution, which is to say, genetic variants. Can you believe it? A blue-collar worker in the UK is a genetic variant of man, and an upperclass Oxford twit is another sort of evolutionary variant. Some British Darwinians go a little farther than this though. There babblings almost give the impression that they consider caste-members to be different species. I'm sure they would deny that if the question be put to them bluntly, but their writings leave the reader with that impression nonetheless.
That's interesting. We know what 'evolutionary psychology' is, but what is 'evolutionary psychiatry'? Is it merely another word for 'eugenic psychiatry'?
Have you ever read any of 'The Doorway Papers' by Arthur C. Custance? 'Noah's Three Sons' has some interesting information about the relative contributions of the various races through Shem, Ham and Japheth. The technology of the Hamitic peoples is especially interesting. Gift of knowledge there.
No I have not read 'The Doorway Papers'... You mention Noah, now why was Noah elected to be the person to take his family into the ark to be saved? Genesis 6:9 There had to have been more than just two people initially created to have what DNA demonstrates. And so the Bible does indeed describe two different days of creation.
There are two possibilities of how it is that we have more than one 'race' of peoples on this earth since the flood. Either these peoples were on the ark or that flood did NOT cover this entire earth. IF not one of these two scenarios then what we have is a 'quick' paced form of evolution over the past few thousand years. Nothing in the story of the flood indicates Noah and his son's suddenly changed ethnicity.
Ask him.
What I found interesting was that Dr. Charlton said, "That is why such obvious scientific truths have not so far been stated clearly, or have actually been denied." and "(This theory is] accepted among those who know and understand the research."
If you had, you would have encountered something called, 'The Technologies of the Hamitic People'. That was the direction I was trying to send you as it relates directly to the IQ argument. Now, you can google that, start reading and discuss or you can go off on a tangent.
"You mention Noah, now why was Noah elected to be the person to take his family into the ark to be saved? Genesis 6:9"
Why it was in the very verse you referenced. "This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations."
Do you see it now?
"There had to have been more than just two people initially created to have what DNA demonstrates."
Nope. That's all based on initial estimates of low human mutation rates projected back into unobservable time. Human mutation rates are actually quite high. Almost, if not in, reproductive error-catastrophe.
"There are two possibilities of how it is that we have more than one 'race' of peoples on this earth since the flood. Either these peoples were on the ark or that flood did NOT cover this entire earth. IF not one of these two scenarios then what we have is a 'quick' paced form of evolution over the past few thousand years. Nothing in the story of the flood indicates Noah and his son's suddenly changed ethnicity."
Race, as you describe it above, is an evolutionary concept based on outward physical characteristics and assumptions of mutation rates again. In reality there is only one race, the human race. Now, if you want to switch definitions of race and argue from the other side, I understand.
That's one of the problems with believing in evolution. It is absolutely blinding to any other interpretation of reality.
Well, those who believe such things have millions of reasons why observation doesn't fit the theory.
These elistists are soooooooo dumb
Eugenics
Who will clean up after the elitists if all the common folk no longer exist
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