A Blood Libel on Our Civilization. Can I expell Expelled?

National Review Online ^ | April 28, 2008 | John Derbyshire

[ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas]

>>Well, when they release a commercial that starts out with a tired and old false argument against evolution, they should expect some criticism.<<

Do you mean the question, “How did life begin?” I think that’s a pretty good question, and you may be convinced that science can answer that question, but I am not.

I have not seen the movie, so I don’t know if arguments against it are valid or not, but I don’t have any problem with the commercial I have seen.

[MrB]

Some scientist attempted the experiment with the “lucky lightning strike” and got some “organic chemicals” to form.

However, not only has his “primordial soup” been refuted as what actually existed at the proposed pre-life time,

his “organic chemicals” were chemicals like formaldehyde that are hostile to life.

[ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas]

Life from Scratch

I am skeptical.

[Shryke]

Do you mean the question, “How did life begin?” I think that’s a pretty good question, and you may be convinced that science can answer that question, but I am not.

That is the question, exactly. And it has nothing to do with the theory of evolution. Oh, I know, all the creationists here want to say that it does, over and over, endlessly, but it doesn't. Life must exist already for evolution to occur. There is no way around it. The idea that life sprang from some random event (and lifeless compounds) is called "abiogensis". NOT "evolution".

[lasereye]

His problem with Intelligent Design boils down to the fact that many who believe in ID are creationists. He would have us believe that that fact alone invalidates ID as a scientifically valid idea, which is a non-sequiter. All he’s doing is demonstrating that he’s an atheist. The rest of his rant then flows from his atheist world view, and is mixed in with various other irrelevancies and ad hominem arguments, such as Moslems are creationists, etc.

[ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas]

>>Life must exist already for evolution to occur.<<

I agree. So you don’t think that Stein’s question was a challenge to abiogenesis and the arrogance of some materialists?

If Stein’s premise is that because science doesn’t really understand life (which I think is true), evolution must be totally false, then I think he is wrong about that.

[tpanther]

No, not shocked but I am surprised that one can believe in a God incapable of creating, or only capable of controlling while not capable of creating, not responsible, or not involved with creation. To ME, it doesn’t make any sense.

But I’ve seen that today for the first time, and it seems to me an extraordinary effort to believe the LEAST likely scenario, while disparaging others.

Not speaking of you of course.

It sounds like we believe the same exact thing, at least from the nuts and bolts of it.

And yes scientifically, we have two competing theories, that I don’t see necessary in place to threaten the other, because neither offers definitive end all answers, so the logical thing TO ME seems to let them play out!

I also think when a person, or group begins demanding to define and to control exchange of information is dangerous, from EITHER side BTW, and I’d vigorously tell ID proponents looking to DEMAND evolution be banned, or dismissed or made fun of, that they’re doing more to HARM ID with that attitude.

But demanidng people to shut up because that’s not science, etc. likewise isn’t a genuine exploration of ideas IMO.

As far as the earth being 6000 years old, I don’t much CARE...some people are fixated, but the FACT is no one was there to live to tell about it, we simply study what’s been left behind with the MAN-made (ie INFALLABLE) TOOLS WE’VE CREATED!

Science indeed explains the things we CAN explain, but that doesn’t mean that which it can not explain, ie the supernatural, OR that science is the ONLY means to explain our world.

For all I know the thousands vs. millions of years is as simple as years in ancient times were measured differently than today, which explains Biblical figures being hundreds of years old, when they may have only been 30-40, I don’t know.

If God was able to create Adam and all we know from dirt or nothing...and Satan was able to cause the fall of man in the Garden of Eden, then it seems to me dinosaurs could well be something unexplained by science and supernatural as well, don’t know, wasn’t there.

Maybe when God created the dinosaurs on day one...that day TOOK a ga-jillion years...and as God progressed through creation, He was measuring days in it’s infancy for the first time, perhaps he adjusted a day as he went along, to the point by the end it more closely resembled what we now have.

I don’t think sciewnce, the Bible, etc. was intended to explain every single solitary thing we think about, otherwise how utterly BORING it owuld be to “know it all”.

Besides, I think the next life will be for all that.

But yes, I agree science shouldn’t be forced to address ID, but I also agree it shouldn’t demand it be hidden either!

Let the people decide for themselves!

I think we agree on far more than we disagree btw.

[Shryke]

So you don’t think that Stein’s question was a challenge to abiogenesis and the arrogance of some materialists?

I believe Stein's premise was the lack "free speech" in the science classroom. Which is laughably ridiculous, as well harmful. That's the problem.

[Ethan Clive Osgoode]

Western Civilization is predicated on the belief that objective knowledge can be accumulated by rational, testable means.

Yes, and that follows from the notion of design, purpose, teleology, and intelligent creation.

[Ethan Clive Osgoode]

Damn that Darwin for studying finches in the Galapogos Islands.

The Darwinism-Eugenics history is a little more incriminating than you would make it seem. Lurkers can go to my FR page and read about some of it.

[scottdeus12]

My bad, I thought you’re tagline used to read Godless Athiest...

[lasereye]

Damn that Darwin for studying finches in the Galapogos Islands. If he hadn’t done that, there would have been no Holocaust.

It's a reasonable hypothesis.

BTW, the finches are now pretty obviously not evidence for any kind of macro-evolution since many of the "different" species have been observed breeding with each other. The beak sizes are just adaptation, which is what all observed "evolution" is. They have been seen to both grow and shrink at various times.

[Oshkalaboomboom]

Judging from the box office receipts I don't think you'll be fighting anyone for a seat.

By next weekend it will have passed over Roger and Me, not too shabby for a movie playing to mostly empty seats.

[Non-Sequitur]

By next weekend it will have passed over Roger and Me, not too shabby for a movie playing to mostly empty seats.

If it does better than it did last week, maybe. It's about $1.5 million behind. Of course, Roger and Me opened on 4 screens and never showed on more than 265 at any one time, a quarter of the screens Expelled opened on.

[Lancey Howard]

So what’s going on here with this stupid Expelled movie? No, I haven’t seen the dang thing.

The End.

See ya on another thread!

[Clemenza]

1. Derbyshire grew up in a blue collar household.

2. What is wrong with "elitism." To be an elitist is to believe in high standards, and the fact that those with talent and intelligence shoulder the burden for all of us and are the ones who ultimately advance civilization.

I think too many folks (Laura Ingraham being the most noteworthy example) confuse elitism with snobbery. They are two separate concepts.

The migration of populist retards to the Right has ruined the conservative movement, IMHO.

[YHAOS]

"The Founding Fathers disagree, since one of the powers of Congress is to promote the progress of science and the useful arts."

By what means? Just anything Congress feels the need to do?

[wideawake]

1. Derbyshire grew up in a blue collar household.

That describes almost every social climber ever born.

Pretty much every other 20 something in NYC is a refugee from a blue collar or lower-middle white collar home in a small town - and they usually delight in putting down the town they came from, the religion they were raised in, the silly devotion to local sports in their hometown, the lack of culture in their hometown, etc.

2. What is wrong with "elitism." To be an elitist is to believe in high standards, and the fact that those with talent and intelligence shoulder the burden for all of us and are the ones who ultimately advance civilization.

There is a difference between maintaining a standard of excellence and a standard of detached cynicism - or, as you put it, between elitism and snobbery. Derbyshire is a snob.

The migration of populist retards to the Right has ruined the conservative movement, IMHO.

I definitely agree with that sentiment.

Here is the problem: mindless populism on the one hand is counterbalanced by obnoxious obscurantism on the other hand - i.e. the "palaeoconservative" faction.

And the two factions often mutually support each other in a noxious alliance - like the Ron Paul campaign.

Especially in the matter of religion: for the populist, religion is a purely emotional phenomenon - which is precisely the way the wry snob views it: namely as an emotional response which is sometimes useful among the lower sort but which he is thankfully free from.

There is a type of "conservative" who views faith and patriotism as useful items which can be manipulated for political ends. And then there is the populist "conservative" who views emotionalism as "faith" and ethnonationalism as "patriotism."

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

The target is atheistic Darwinism. You could not overstate the case against this. Followers of that ideology currently want to combine human and animal DNA to form chimeras like the Humanzee.

To not be able to separate atheistic Darwinism from Western civilization as a whole (which includes Christianity) is a serious mistake and intellectual error.

These atheists are behind the eugenics of Planned Parenthood, abortion on demand, embryonic stem cell research, Frankenfoods, and the animal-human hybrid experiments. These are crimes against humanity.

Atheistic Darwinism is not the essence of civilization. Civilization pre-dates the rise of scientific materialism.

[Sun]

Here’s where you can find the nearest Expelled movie near you:

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/theaterap.php

And then check out the trailer.