Defending home-style ABCs [Homeschooling Ping]

Madison Browning, 8, spent a recent school day coloring, playing on swings at a park and whirling to Japanese string music at a cozy dance studio. Caedyn Curto, 13, studied biblical scripture at his family's kitchen table before tackling decimals, completing a biology test and revising a journalism essay.

The Browning and Curto families, both of whom live in the South Bay, have embraced very different styles of education. But they now find themselves on the same side of a battle to continue teaching their children at home in the face of an appellate court ruling that home schooling in California must be conducted by credentialed instructors.

The February court decision is not being enforced pending appeals. The 2nd District Court of Appeal agreed last week to rehear the case in June, and Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger pledged to support new legislation allowing home schooling if the decision is not reversed. Meanwhile, the ruling has forged a rare alliance of religious and secular home schoolers.

Well I think the best conclusion to come to is that public schools are not better than homeschooling and homeschooling is not better than public schooling in general.

It is all situational. Not all parents would make good teachers and not all public schools are good. However in some situations either one works for particular people.

I have to wonder about people who have to have broad generalizations in the manner of ‘this or that is better than this or that NO EXCEPTIONS’.

There is no sense in putting down public schools and the children in them. If homeschoolers want respect they should not be so quick to put down those who do not (or were not) homeschooled.

Also, not everyone has the luxury to stay home with their child all day. At some point it becomes an elitist thing in which people get smarmy and think they should not have to pay taxes for public education at all because they have the ability to homeschool. For the people who can that is great; I think its great we live in a free country where people can make their own choices.

One or two observations.

With a EE degree you must be aware that our public school system is broken, and most likely broken beyond repair. Yes, there are a few good schools left, but not many.

Witness our standing in the world as it pertains to our HS graduates abilities and knowledge. The facts are undeniable except to the most recalcitrant.

Every day, right here on FR, there are a half dozen to a dozen examples of various schools around the country that are completely broken and out of control. From giving little girls birth control without parental consent, to sexual abuse by teachers, lack of standards for teachers and kids, and just plain out of control classes, those schools hurt millions of school kids every year.

You mentioned that your kids have the moral strength to fight off the attempts at liberal indoctrination. Well, so what? What about all of those hundreds of OTHER kids in your school? Who is looking out for them? In most cases.......nobody. Why should they be sacrificed on the alter of Public School?

Is that fair to them? And how many millions more should be sacrificed? And, WHOSE kids? Just the other kids, not yours?

I could go on, but this whole system is so broken that only a radical overhaul is going to fix it.

Home schoolers are the future of our country. Public schoolers may play a part too, but that’s by exception, as there is a mountain of proof that most of them are attending schools that don’t care about them.

Regarding liberal indoctrination: I do think we are headed on the path the UK has already taken; the path where you cannot speak anything but the standard politically correct conclusions of the hour.

I have a feeling that the ‘new UK’ is at least partially a result of far left wing teachers taking over the school systems and promoting their beliefs.

I hear that the “Tories” often get a lot of flack over there if they dare to mention any of their own ideas. I hope i did not come across like i did not believe indoctrination exists in schools because I am sure it does.

However, I still believe that parents can effectively set their kids straight. Who do you put more stock in your parents or a school teacher? For me the answer was always my parents and therefore I did not become a democrat despite going to public school in new england.

I don’t think the school system should be given a conservative bias either. I believe history classes should just report the honest facts.

I remember how we did alot of units on hiroshima in school. I was truly horrified and it made me very sad. They never stressed pearl harbor though; it was presented as if hiroshima was an unprovoked act of aggression. The story is unbalanced if you stress just one part.

Despite this, I still feel like most of my teachers did not push an agenda too strongly. Most of them were professional in that regard. Amazingly my US government teacher was a conservative and would tell us his opinion on things. So you cannot lump all public school teachers into one ‘snarling mass of liberal vipers” either

It is all situational. Not all parents would make good teachers

I am not a one-size-fits-all person with respect to education; I understand your point that children do well in different environments. However, you seem to still be stuck on the idea that home education means the parent is a teacher of a school, which makes me wonder whether you understand home education very well. A parent doesn't need to be a teacher in order for their child to be home educated.

Also, not everyone has the luxury to stay home with their child all day

This is another misconception; I know single mothers who work and whose children are educated out of school.

At some point it becomes an elitist thing in which people get smarmy and think they should not have to pay taxes for public education at all because they have the ability to homeschool.

I think you are mistaken about the motives of other people. From my observation it becomes a conservative thing in which people think they should not have to pay taxes for compulsory public education at all because it is unConstitutional and then find a way to be able to home educate in order to be true to their principles.

I think its great we live in a free country where people can make their own choices.

I think making our own choices is wonderful. I think footing the bill for our own choices is good too.

I don't have an EE degree (my husband does, he's an engineer). Sorry if I didn't make that clear. Calc and physics aren't my areas of expertise. As a part time and former full time public school teacher, I'm more than aware that our public school system is broken and sucks. It's been so dumbed down, it infuriates me. However, not every public school district is like Philly or some of the districts I read about here. Our public high school district is excellent, imo. Witness our standing in the world as it pertains to our HS graduates abilities and knowledge. The facts are undeniable except to the most recalcitrant. hope this works, I really do suck at this. I do agree. Our grade and middle schools no longer teach science, at least not the science I learned. Heh, math, the same in many cases. It's all about not hurting the poor child's feelings anymore. Ticks me off. Every day, right here on FR, there are a half dozen to a dozen examples of various schools around the country that are completely broken and out of control. From giving little girls birth control without parental consent, to sexual abuse by teachers, lack of standards for teachers and kids, and just plain out of control classes, those schools hurt millions of school kids every year. I agree. However, just like all the crap on the news, this is not happening everywhere. We don't hear the success stories concerning anything, from the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, to the good cops (and yes they exist because I come from a family of them who are vocal 2nd A supporters). I can't speak for any school that my kids don't attend. Well, so what? so what? I'm not responsible for every person or every kid but I am responsible for mine. It's my job as a parent. And, as a taxpayer, I'm responsible for where my taxes go, voting, fighting the system. But we can't raise all these kids. They shouldn't be sacrificed to the ALTAR of public schools but where the hell are they supposed to go? Do you really think if we eliminate public education that most of these kids will get any education at all? They certainly won't from the ghettos in philly, from their drug addicted parents who don't give a damn about them. Even our k-8 district is decent, affluent area. But as a taxpayer, and someone who cares, I do fight them too. Our public k-8 district is being sued by the ACLU because the taxpayers in this district successfully fought the homo video. Our k-8 BOE election next week is hot! Hopefully, we'll succeed there too and oust the loons (libs). My kids don't go there, why should I care? Well, I care anyway. That's the reason I vote, and canvass, and fight what happens there. Just like my parents, God rest their souls, I parent my kids. I can't parent the world's kids. The problem is far worse than our public schools, it's parents. Far too many parents don't parent their kids anymore and maybe homeschoolers are different. I know many parents who don't parent their kids, be it catholic school kids or public schools kids. I know a couple homeschoolers - probably not the norm, but they SUCK in most things, especially parenting. And then, there's a few who I admire. We probably agree on many things as you seem conservative. I agree that in some areas, our public schools are nothing more than prisons trying to contain the animals (philly comes to mind) and some teachers shouldn't be teaching. And I was taught, life ain't fair. My parents grew up during the Great Depression. My Dad was a WWII vet. They raised good kids. I hope I can do the same. But, I can't parent everyone's kids - that's up to those parents. And my Mom, God rest her soul, taught me that it's all about the home. If the public school system ended tomorrow, we'd survive. I do doubt that most inner city areas would fare as well. As for now, we're taking advantage of our high school district by sending our kids to it - and it ain't free, wanna see my property taxes? lol. We send our kids to k-8 Catholic (and in this area, it's a bit too lib for me but again, it's all about the home).

I enjoyed our discussion. I do learn tons here on FR. I don’t agree with all posts or all ideas but figure most of us are conservatives who want the best for our country and our families.

Not anything about you, since I usually don’t follow threads well, and yes I know I suck at it. I replied to posts I agreed and disagreed with.

In a perfect world, nothing would be made personal, and on the internet I know too well how it gets personal. Hell, I’ve regretted a post or two that I posted. And, I don’t think I ever regretted anything in real life, as opposed to a post I made.

This whole internet thing, I will never get it.

I get what HG was saying because I’ve seen threads and posters who do make sweeping generalizations. Funny thing is, we probably all agree on other issues. At least I hope so. I sure as hell don’t want anyone trying to parent my kids, be it the government or some union or some other parent who thinks they know best. Stay the hell out of my life is my motto. And mess with my kids, then mess with me. It’s really simple as that. Be it homeschoolers or some other citizen that is trying to tell me what’s best for my kids or the government or the schools - catholic or public. Just stay the hell out of my life (generally speaking, not you per se). I’m more than capable of parenting my own kids.

I still think you all know each other ;) and I’m out of the loop.

Dear Twink,

"I withdraw my statement to you per your request."

Thank you.

"Doesn’t mean I don’t agree with HG. Just for the record here."

You haven't shown that you even know what the poster actually said.

"I thought we were discussing and I enjoyed the discussion."

You said something that was untrue about me. Your posts to me don't suggest that you cared in the least about the truth of what you said.

If you think that that makes for enjoyable discussions (at least, enjoyable for your interlocutors), then you're incorrect.

“My mistake.”

Yes, your mistake.

sitetest

Fine, my mistake. Geez, anal aren’t we?

You’re welcome. I thought that you’re nice and did enjoy our discussion. Call me a fool. It was one sided. Because, I did enjoy and care about what you posted. You were nice to me, bottom line, and I thought we were discussing. My mistake, again.

I know EXACTLY what the poster, humblegunner said and I agree with him. I don’t need to show you &&&&. Unless of course I’m being tested and graded and if so, just what do I get out of it again? I haven’t been a student for far too many years to fall for this crap.

I cared or I wouldn’t have replied. How you take it is on you but I did care, sitetest. Not so much anymore.

Again, my mistake. Geez. I know humblegunner was commenting on the arrogance and self righteousness of SOME homeschoolers. How’s that about me not knowing what he was posting about again?

I’d say bite me but I don’t want to get deleted. Some of you people know how to get the digs in - I gotta learn that. Or maybe not. Not worth the time.

Dear Twink,

“Geez, anal aren’t we?”

When people play breezily loose with the truth, yeah, something like that.

“You were nice to me, bottom line, and I thought we were discussing.”

I'm still being nice, even if I'm also pointing out that you said something that wasn't quite true, and then didn't seem to have any desire to check whether it was true or not.

“I know EXACTLY what the poster, humblegunner said and I agree with him.”

You agree with this?

“My public schooled kids shrug off your insult and suggest
that perhaps your kids are weenies who get beat up and can't cut it in the real world.”

That was in response to what I said here:

“But we also know that on average, homeschooled children do better than public school students,...”

I replied:

“I didn't say anything about your public-schooled children.”

Humblegunner then told this lie about me:

“Sure you did, just today. Remember?

“’homeschooled children do better than public school students’”

What I actually said was:

“But we also know that on average, homeschooled children do better than public school students,”

Why is this a lie? Because in taking it out of context, it changed if from a comparison of results of one group to the results of a second group to a universal generalization.

So, you agree with what humblegunner said?

sitetest

Well, it’s not just one or two from what I read.

You can ask Metmom anything you like.

I don’t give a damn about what other people post. I care about what I post and I have never said anything negative about homeschooling other than to posters who try to shove it down my throat or accuse me or my kids of being somehow inferior to them. Even then, I don’t trash homeschooling like so many homeschoolers trash us parents that don’t homeschool. And if you read this board, you can’t tell me you don’t see it too.

You see these threads having someone come out trashing homeschooling and I see EVERY public education thread or geez any thread dealing with education or teens with that ANOTHER REASON TO HOMESCHOOL nonsense. And to me, living in the real world, it’s nonsense.

I wasn’t homeschooled. I don’t homeschool. I do respect those parents who homeschool their kids as an alternative. I have NEVER trashed them even though my parenting and my kids have been trashed because I don’t fall to the altar of homeschool for my family.

IMO homeschooling does not need to answer to public schools or the government. And I’m pretty sure legally, homeschoolers will win any court cases pertaining to this. I sure would back them up. Or support any legal battle they are involved in.

I’m an advocate for me, my kids and my country. Don’t shove your attitudes or beliefs down my throat and I’ll do the same. For example, I wish the homos had stayed in the closet because now it’s getting shoved down my throat that it’s some kind of normal behavior when we all know it ain’t. Don’t tell me I suck as a parent because I don’t homeschool my kids. Get it? I sure as hell don’t want to live in some puritan society, regardless of what puritan doctrine dominates. Don’t tell me that homeschooling is the only way to educate our kids since as far as I know, we’re still Americans and that crap don’t go over well here, just like all the lib crap isn’t going over well.

I agree and support your choice in education. Why is it so hard to support that we’re fighting the lib public schools? Why is it so hard to believe that not all public schools are awful? I know my teens high school isn’t - hell I wouldn’t be sending them there if it were. I grew up in philly and went to catholic schools. Far better than the public schools even more than two decades ago, but our high school district is great. Why is that so hard to believe?

Why is it so hard to believe that some teens are moral and do practice their faith even when they attend public high schools?

Life is a battleground imo and moreso when people choose to make it such. Seriously, life isn’t so bad and it’s not so hard. God doesn’t give us more than we can handle even though sometimes we don’t see it.

Homeschoolers are fighting for something now, in CA, from what I read. They’ll win. I don’t believe anyone here is against homeschooling per se. It’s one’s right as a parent. It’s also my right not to homeschool.

And I ain’t gonna aplogize for posters on our side that speak the truth and say what they mean. Just like you. It does go both ways and I believe most see it that way. It’s sorta funny when those on the extreme, homeschooling is the only answer, trash those of us who are parents and don’t homeschool. And the opposite is the case too. Homeschooling sucks, it’s weird, etc. I know I’ve heard this in real life, not on this board.

I disagree, in that, some people can’t homeschool. Some have to work. Anyone who has to work knows this. And it’s not for McMansions or Esclades or whatever the game thing is (WII or X Box?). And seriously, we don’t want the dregs of society educating their kids anymore than they already do - drug addicts, crack babies, etc. Any one familiar with inner city understands just how different it is than most of the country. We don’t want these so called parents to homeschool cos no schooling would take place. I shudder to think if public schools closed tommorrow - where would all these kids go - probably terrorizing their neighbors. I’m just glad I don’t have to live in inner city philly anymore.

The people that could benefit from homeschooling don’t really need it because those parents are already parenting their kids. IMO

I’m going to bed now but will answer your post somewhat. We can talk more tomorrow or the next time I’m online. I don’t mean to be abrupt but it’s late here and I’m heading to bed.

I think you have an issue with humblegunner, so I included him in the post (pinged him? I just learned if one is talking about another poster it’s considered good manners to include him/her in the post. All these internet rules). You really should discuss it with him. IMO. Are you doing this with me cos I’m easy and he isn’t?

I’m taking it as you dissing me from your post and I could be wrong, it’s possible and likely, yet I don’t think so here.

On average...love those words. Takes me back to Stat 200. As a not so smart math student, it is the one thing I learned in Stat 200. I’m starting to think I know more about statistics than the average person, and some here. On average is always a qualifier to a bunch of bs or manipulation of the numbers, not taking correlating data into account, etc.

At this point, I do still agree with most of what humblegunner posted. I don’t see that changing.

I AM going to bed, lol. After I reply to you.

My honors alg 2 teacher taught me and our class how to write a college research paper (back in the early 80’s, catholic school). The topic was math, mine was Descarte or something. But it was the first and only research paper before college. Taught me tons.

Heh, I have kids. (talking about you being biased to your kids). My two teens, anyway, dread asking me for help yet always want my help to edit their papers. And, I don’t just red pen them. I circle stuff, this is wrong, this is grammatically incorrect, say this better, this sentence doesn’t flow, you spelled this or that word wrong.

I agree, it is easier to hear some teacher overhaul your paper, but if you’re my kid, you would get used to it. My oldest will say, “but mom, how would you really grade this, I want to know what you’d give it since you’re a hard grader” So I tell her. Then she gets pissed, stomps off, but comes back eventually. This is why I don’t want to grade my kids. They know I’m tough and they want me to be honest but I’m still their mom. It’s so hard to edit their papers because I’m hard. And all the stomping and slamming doors. It gets annoying. We don’t even need to add all the hormonal crap.

This is why I could NEVER teach grade school. Those kids are too damn cute, I couldn’t grade them. Seriously, how can one give a grade to a little 6 yr old? I’m so much better with middle and high school. Those little ones can wrap me around their fingers. Heh, forget my own kids. There would either be no objectively or the opposite, too much trying to compensate.

I can help my kids but I’m mommy first. That’s the way it should be imo.

Yep. I understand that too. Your last paragraph. I learned discipline at home but also in 13 yrs of catholic school. One was NEVER tardy, it was worse than being absent and I still carry that to this day. Any assignment due, points off if late, no excuses. Taught me well. Life isn’t easy, not everyone is one’s parents willing to love you no matter what. :) Oh and in college, after spending 13 yrs in catholic school, I didn’t know what to do with the 2 free cut days. Freshman year, most of my profs talked about 2 free cut days, no questions asked. I was like, huh? We can just not come to class if we’re not sick? Totally new world for me. Needless to say, I didn’t cut often. Cutting was not an option in Catholic high school and it’s not in my teens public high school.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.