Posted on 04/05/2008 3:09:38 PM PDT by kiriath_jearim
Madison Browning, 8, spent a recent school day coloring, playing on swings at a park and whirling to Japanese string music at a cozy dance studio. Caedyn Curto, 13, studied biblical scripture at his family's kitchen table before tackling decimals, completing a biology test and revising a journalism essay.
The Browning and Curto families, both of whom live in the South Bay, have embraced very different styles of education. But they now find themselves on the same side of a battle to continue teaching their children at home in the face of an appellate court ruling that home schooling in California must be conducted by credentialed instructors.
The February court decision is not being enforced pending appeals. The 2nd District Court of Appeal agreed last week to rehear the case in June, and Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger pledged to support new legislation allowing home schooling if the decision is not reversed. Meanwhile, the ruling has forged a rare alliance of religious and secular home schoolers.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
I don’t post to school threads much, but I do read them with interest, especially the home school threads.
One constant on the home school threads is HGs enragement at some slight or another that he perceives has been made of his kids.
My suggestion to him to avoid the home school threads has nothing to do with where he sends his kids. It does have everything to do with his constant search for a reason to be offended. Someone in constant search for a chance to piss all over everyone else is disgusting. Thus my suggestion.
Thank you for the reply.
I don’t know of the instances of enragement. I’m speaking about tonight and another day/night in a different thread. His/her post caught my attention then because I think I know the frustration - you have to admit, sometimes these education threads get turned into homeschool only threads and sometimes the posters do try to shove the homeschooling agenda down the throat. Maybe you don’t. From what I’ve read this last year, I’m new, seems that way to me.
I have read many posts from homeschoolers (and please don’t take this to mean ALL because I know it’s not ALL) that do say that those who send their kids to public or private schools are abusing their kids, suck as parents, public school kids aren’t as academically intelligent as those homeschooled, those parents who don’t homeschool are either abusing their kids or don’t love them enough to homeschool, all public schools are bad. For the latter, a couple posters have said that ALL public schools suck and even posted that some of us don’t or won’t realize that our public schools suck, that our public schools are *good*.
Well, as an educated parent, since that seems to matter, two Master degrees and a husband who is an EE, I think I’m qualified to say that our public high school is excellent. If it weren’t, I wouldn’t be sending my kids to it. And, our Catholic grade school rocks too. Neither is perfect. No school is perfect. No parent, and no homeschooling situation, is perfect. Hell, life aint’ perfect but most of us deal with it.
I’m qualified to homeschool my kids in most areas (other than calc, ain’t my area of expertise) but I choose not to because our catholic grade school, k-8, and our public high school are excellent, imo and my opinion is the only one that really counts :) I work part time after being a stay at home mom for 13 years, only because my husband made enough money for us to be able to do that, make that choice. Not everyone can. We can’t anymore, unfortunately. I have to work now, at least part time.
There are homeschoolers who take every chance and every thread to piss on those of us who don’t homeschool. Our kids are being cheated, we don’t love them enough, we’re abusers, and for heavens sake, those of us that teach do so because we can’t do anything else or we’re a part of the problem in public school - we’re not Christian enough. I’ve read it all in the last year I’ve been here and honestly, I’m shocked by some of the posts on a conservative forum.
I support those who CHOOSE to homeschool. I admire those who do it well. I support the homeschool community. I know there are posters who support those of us who send our kids to private/catholic/public school. I also have seen, unfortunately, supposedly conservatives who would like to FORCE us to homeschool and those who consider us non home schoolers, somehow less worthy as parents. And, consider our kids, stupid or less smart than homeschooled kids. We ALL know about Statistics, anyone who took it in college, for me it was Stat 200. Stat for math dummies :) Statistics are manipulated and far too many don’t include correlating data.
Education, teaching, is my passion. Fortunately, I’m not the primary income so it can be a passion/interest for me. I’m a good public school teacher (wouldn’t teach in catholic school because the pay really sucks there). I’m a practicing Catholic yet some homeschoolers claim any Christian who teaches in the public schools is part of the problem. We’re fighting (and winning) the school initiatives that have been passed, and have been ousted, in our district. We vote and we campaign and we put up people that will support our community’s interests. We have Garden State Equality, the homo group, and the ACLU suing our district because the voters succeeded. We won. It will be a cold day in hell before that homo video is shown in our schools again.
My kids attend Catholic k-8 so no problem there but they will attend the EXCELLENT public high school just like their teen sisters do now. And just like their sisters, they’re too strong in their faith to allow the liberal agenda to impact them in any way.
Homeschooling works for some and not others. And, not ALL homeschooled kids surpass their *institutionalized* peers academically or socially.
HG is making a point, imo, or at least I’m seeing a point. HSers on here tend to trash every or any public or private school kid. Personally, I think the accomplishments of hsers and their parents could be presented in a different, less accusatory way. I value and admire most even though I’m sure now that it’s not reciprocal, at least with many hsers on here. (I’m abbreviating things, hope you follow, sorry I suck at this stuff).
Bottom line to me, in a way, if homeschoolers stay off public education threads, maybe we won’t post on homeschool only threads. I’m sorta new but seriously, I was told not too long along that I shouldn’t be posting on a homeschool thread. We’re not supposed to question homeschooling (and I don’t, I do support it and admire those who participate) even when posters make ludicrous assumptions and trash all public and private education and those who use it and choose it as a career for the passion of teaching.
We disagree on this, obviously, but I do appreciate you reply and our discussion.
Maybe. I think you all know each other and I’m odd one out here :)
I think what you are doing is awesome.
heh, Math ain’t my forte either ;) I can do everthing but honors/AP calc when it comes to math. And obviously, physics isn’t my strongest subject either.
I’m the mean teacher too. And the mean parent/mom. Such is life ;) Yet, my students love me for some reason. and my kids and their friends do too. Boggles the mimd. Maybe they want structure, an adult. Well not all of them. I’m sure a couple can’t stand me. Some probably think I’m a hippie in that I drink beer, heaven forbid. I’m far from a hippie :)
I wonder what the stats would be if we took out the NE cities, Detroit, Southwestern areas with high population of illegals, L.A., etc. I bet those percentages would rise.
You’re providing a service to those kids and God Bless you.
Heh. Your son will be thanking you, eventually. Im sure of it.
Do we really need a Stat course/lesson again?
I’m not the brightest crayon in the box but I bet any engineer here will agree with me in that those Stats mean nothing when you’re not including correlating data. Any engineers, geeks, want to comment?
His kids aren’t insulted and neither is he. Read his posts. He’s making a point which is apparently lost on those who won’t see it.
Have you not read a post that blatantly trashed public/private schooled kids from a couple homeschoolers? I’ve been here almost a year and have seen those posts. Just about, if not all, public school threads get hijacked by homeschoolers.
Maybe it’s me. How long can I claim being new? lol.
I know how to spell and I’m usually grammatically correct. But I hate typing. I suck at it.
And, in a casual setting, like an internet forum, Who gives a damn about that stuff anyway? Do we correct our friends in a social setting? I sure as hell don’t. Hell, I’d get a punch upside the head if I attempted to do that.
It’s not limited to homeschooling. Far too many people need some kind of power, in any form, be it correcting spelling or grammar, trashing others who don’t educate their way, not voting their way, whatever.
Personally, everyone should do things my way because I’m right. Everyone else is kooky :)
Finally someone who thinks/knows about causation and I’m assuming correlation ;)
And Statistics wasn’t my best subject. I’m pretty much math stupid.
Why does my post exhorting parents about the problems in public schools tick you off.
Sounds like a sinner being angry when the Pastor tells his parishioners about their sin. “That just really ticks me off when my pastor calls me a sinner.”
I did look up the school district you mentioned. The articles about the district make it look sound academically, but then you post things about it that bolster my argument.
I was in those failing schools in the 70’s and 80’s. That is why my kids are not in those schools today. I knew then and am reassured daily that I made the right decision.
Wrong.
Our public high school, affluent area ok, not only has REAL calc and physics teachers, they actually know what they’re teaching. Not all teachers are stupid.
Hmmm. It’s common in this area to have teachers who know their subject areas.
True about your last paragraph. Parents should check out the teachers and their credentials. You’d be surprised how most, if not all, the teachers in this area are not only tops in their field but also could have any job in the private sector yet teach because it’s their passion. And they’re good at what they do.
Actually, there’s quite a few teachers, not only Math teachers, who received a degree in other than education. I for one, wasn’t an ed major in college. Didn’t become a teacher until I had two master degrees.
However, if your daughter’s teacher doesn’t have a degree in Math, I’d be worried about that. A sociology degree, imo, is useless and if a teacher is teaching math with that degree, I’d be concerned. She/he may be a great math teacher, don’t get me wrong, but I’d question it.
IMO children aren’t getting an education, or they’re getting a dumbed down education, because they and their parents don’t value education/learning. It’s all about the home.
I’m not ticked off. Thought we were discussing stuff. People are so sensitive here when someone doesn’t agree with them.
Omgosh you did not go there, lol. Looney internet posters.
Sorry honey. Wrong poster. Don’t project your issues.
Hmmm. If you looked up the district then my points were supported. Your’s weren’t. And since your kids aren’t in this district then you really don’t know, do you? And why would you care? I’d ask how my posts supported whatever argument you were making but you make so little sense it’s not worth it. Gosh, are you really this stupid? you pulling this with me? Your post is ridiculous with anyone with a brain. Fortunately, I have one. And I’m internet clueless and if I caught this then oh my, you really are silly.
I also attended school in the 70’s and 80’s. My schools weren’t failing, though. Sucks to be you. I attended 13 years of Catholic school in Philly. Prepared me pretty well for college at Penn State. Probably also helped with attaining my two master degrees. But then again, I ain’t a victim to or for anything.
I have no doubt you made the right decision for your children. As I have. And if you really checked out our high school district, you’d know it too. You made the right decision for your children, I have no doubt about that. You’re a parent. You know what is best for your kids.
Gosh, you people are so sensitive and resort to projection. You got that personal attack thing without making it obvious almost down to a t, to those without a brain. Fortunately, most here have a brain. And the posters (I think I have a fave now) that question anything, get slammed. And one particular poster called you on it without mincing words - that rocks to me :) And another argued so intelligently, I was impressed. And a couple on your side were nice, respectful and intelligent. I respect what they posted and respect them.
Pity you can’t do that.
I’d ask what I posted that pissed you off or what made you think I posted anything negative about the district but I really don’t care enough.
Maybe your education really did suck.
These are the kind of posts that tick off some of us, not that any of you care.
So maybe I should have refrained my comment to say tick some posters off.
Then you say:
Do you think every parent is stupid? I know I’m not. My kids attend a fantastic public high school in a wonderful regional public high school district. I have two Master degrees. And my BS degree wasn’t in education so don’t go there.
All I did was respond to that language. If responding to that language makes you think I was upset, I do deeply apologize. Wouldn't want anyone on the internet to have passions and be willing to defend them and accept that others are willing to defend their positions just as passionately.
I graduated higschool in the top 1% of students in the nation. Academic achievement is not the only criteria for public school success.
There is alot of important information that cannot be covered by a standardized test. The first thing that comes into my mind is the art of writing a proper college research paper with good citations.
In my public school we were taught this because the teachers knew it would be a skill useful for college.
Although I got A’s on my college papers I think I would prefer a good english teacher to teach my kids how to write a good paper in highschool. I would be too biased towards my own children and would probably worry too much about hurting their feelings if the paper was flawed. It is one thing for a teacher to tell you to overhaul your paper and another for your parent to tell you to overhaul it.
This brings the topic of discipline to mind. I think I learned discipline from my public school days. I learned that assignement deadlines were fixed or too bad for you; one should never be late, etc
I have to wonder if home schooling consistently offer similar levels of discipline and objective grading.
Twink, I see you are a public school teacher. You defend your position passionately, because you have a vested interest. Good for you. But in the same vein, I have a vested interest in my position, and I will defend my position just as passionately.
It seems you have a strong community willing to fight for their rights and are organized. I still would not put my children in that school system if I lived there, I have chosen this path and we have been successful with it, regardless of what is available. I am sure there are homeschoolers in your district that feel the same way.
I have not once slammed parents for choosing to put their children in a public school. I will from time to time challenge someone who insists they have no choice but to use public school because of some perceived inadequacy to revisit that perception.
I have slammed the public school system, as it currently exists in the US. It is a failing system, you admitted yourself in a previous post that it has been failing since the 70s and 80s. As others have posted, a government compulsary educational system is antithetical to a free society.
And, from time to time, I do come on these threads and choose to relay our own experiences about how our homeschooling works when posters suggest there are not the same opportunities for homeschoolers as those in public schools.
Nope, haven’t seen those posts. Point me to them.
BTW, if you think he’s making a different point, one that is lost on me, please explain it to me. I don’t see it. You’re not helping your cause by falsely accusing me of willfully not seeing his point. That’s sophomoric.
The title is self-explanatory.
Thanks!
Wow, you are one wonderful lady. For every child you get educated and back on track, you are changing the destiny of a generation or more!
I’ll have to look into this in our state (though I am busy right now with my own boys). I’m wondering if the state would consider me a tutor or a private school rather than a homeschooling and put a bunch of other requirements on it.
Anyway, God bless you and your charges. And thanks very much for the inspiration!
Look, you know as well as I do that there is one regular homeschool poster and one occasional one who says those things about government schools being child abuse. Shall I ask metmom how many people she has on her list?
These threads keep having someone new to the discussion come on and throw out a statement about “homeschooling can never prepare you for the real world”. Well of course those of us with a stake in it will fight things all over again. The thing government school advocates don’t understand is that a lot of what they say is “fightin’ words” to homeschoolers. Maybe a call for more regulation is meant idly, but homeschoolers have to be very vigilant against such sentiments. If conservatives who should be supporting us think more regulation is a good idea, we’re in trouble.
Those of us who are adult homeschool graduates remember the time when being taken away from our parents simply because they chose to homeschool us was a real threat. We thought those days were behind us but California is proving us wrong.
What the government school advocates do not understand is that homeschooling is a battleground. Homeschoolers cannot afford to be asleep. The NEA, other teachers’ associations, the Democrat party, most liberals are arrayed against us and it is for us the most important battle we face.
I don’t currently have a direct interest in the fight. I’m graduated, established in my career, have proven myself. My husband and I don’t have kids yet. But I will continue to do what I can even if it’s just show up on threads and persuade people. And these discussions do persuade people. I saw a post just the other week from someone who had been quite anti-homeschooling who realized why we were right.
I’m not going to apologize for stupid posters who make my side look bad any more than I expect you to apologize for the posters who have called me “Christian Taliban” and other flattering terms. Nor do I get personally offended when someone makes a stupid comment about how high school graduates only shouldn’t homeschool their own kids when my mother doesn’t have a college education.
I don’t think homeschooling works for everyone. I think it would work for a lot more people than are willing to try it. Everyone has a cost/benefit ratio and some people place more value on things that I find worthless. Doesn’t mean they’re wrong, doesn’t mean I’m wrong. You can’t very well force people to homeschool. But it’s not that hard, it’s not that expensive, it’s not rocket science, and you can do it even if you’ve got weak areas yourself. Anyone who says otherwise hasn’t tried.
Homeschool moms don’t usually have a problem telling their kids to go back and fix their work. My mother used to give me back papers covered in red pen. She also taught other homeschool kids how to write research papers.
Most homeschoolers maintain schedules and deadlines. Some don’t. So? You sink or swim. I had plenty of classes in college with public school graduates with no discipline. On the whole, homeschoolers tend to have more discipline because the child takes more and more responsibility for his own education as time goes on. By high school, my mother was assigning work in three week chunks for me. My responsibility was to have it done by the deadline. She wasn’t going to nag me about whether I was working on it or not, it was just due or there would be consequences.
Homeschooling lets kids work at their own pace. What might take a smart kid twenty minutes could take a stupid kid two hours. Homeschooling means the stupid kid gets plenty of time and the smart kid gets to move on to something else. No smart kids sitting in class throwing paper airplanes because they’re bored, no slow kid getting mocked by his classmates for always taking so long.
Aw, shucks, ‘twert nuthin. You’re making me blush!
Hint: look for the private religious school exemptions.
I do not think teachers are stupid and never said that. There are several teachers in my family, and I know many good and great teachers. Teachers are however in very short supply right now and many are teaching without full licensure or out of their field. It is a big problem in many areas and will get worse as many are retiring in the next few years. Your location may be an exception- in places that are very desirable to live or that pay very well it is not as bad as it is in many rural areas and certain areas of cities. In places where it is really hard to find teachers- poor areas, or high crime, bad location many teachers are grossly underqualified- some schools hire anyone that is willing. I would bet your school pays more than most places. If we really want the best teachers in the classrooms we will have to be willing to pay them.
I agree with you that many parents have dropped the ball and are not supportive of their children’s education. Parents have to ignite the spark of learning, and be a part of the process- education really does start in the home.
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