Good point. You are suggesting that there's something beyond the Republican party..some things called conservatism and the future.
I'll fight against liberalism, regardless of the letter after the names.
Posted on 02/23/2008 10:56:29 AM PST by Bob J
Ever since Super Tuesday a super debate has been raging on FR concerning John McCain. I was never a McCain supporter, in fact I penned the post Super Tuesday post "Official FR Drinking Thread" so we could together drown our common disappointments into oblivion.
FReepers seem to be moving into three distinct groups. The first are those that have always supported McCain, a lot or partially. There are those that don't like McCain but are willing to support him because they believe they will get some of what they want or to defeat what the see as the more critical danger, Obama or Clinton. The there's the third group, those that viscerally dislike McCain and vow never to vote for him for any reason.
The actions and motivation for support from the first two groups seem obvious...they would rather see McCain in the White House than a dem. But for the life of me I cannot understand some of the actions of the third.
Allow me to explain.
I understand you dislike McCain and the reasons why. He is far too liberal on many issues, he has stabbed conservatives in the back several times and he is too cozy with the dems. These are all defensible reasons to not vote for him or to vote third party and you have every right to vote as you see fit and for whatever reasons you hold. What I don't understand is why some here are making such concerted efforts to dissuade others from voting for or supporting him.
As flawed as McCain is there is no way a logical case can be made that we would be better off under Obama or Hillary (O&H). Even on most issues where McCain is closer to the left than to us, O&H are much farther to the left than he is and would do much more damage than McCain. On the issues where he is not, the WOT, taxes, abortion, etc., the differences are stark and this does not even take into count extended issues like judicial appointments.
So why are you working so hard, so viscerlly, so nasty, to turn votes against McCain? If you truly feel as you do than go sit out November or cast your vote for your 3rd party candidate. That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is why you push for a McCain and GOP loss.
It may be as simple as "misery loves company". It may be that you validate your own position by getting others to believe as you do. It may be that there are some dem propaganda plants on FR. I don't know but I sure would like to and I know others do as well.
I’m not voting for McCain because I said I wouldn’t, and I always keep my word. AFAIC Obama has the job already won, so it doesn’t matter whether I vote or not. I will vote for the “conservative” candidates on the local/state level, and leave the presidency up to the good Lord. I think He may have plans for giving America her justice.
There is still a chance to stop McCain if he does not have a breakdown first.
Good point. You are suggesting that there's something beyond the Republican party..some things called conservatism and the future.
I'll fight against liberalism, regardless of the letter after the names.
Where do you live?
I must concur. Best post on the issue I have seen on FR.
That must account for all the new, juvenile McBots on FR. ;-)
As I was reading your post, it struck me as to how far off it was from the business at hand. Yes, compromise makes for strange bedfellows, but compromise is all we have, except for you and the absolute set - either play by my rules or I’ll take my ball and stay home. Well, there are other balls around, much bigger than your ball that will be out there playing while you are baying at the moon about how compromised everything is.
You are not a Luddite, you are a dinosaur.
What part of "he's unfit for office" don't you get?
You vote how you want, I'll vote how I want to. Deal?
When being right of McCain makes me a member of the "radical" wing of the party, it's time to stand up against the direction this party is moving. I'm not drinking the kool-aid.
“Rational arguments” are not based on “facts” not in evidence, nor do they throw out the ‘communist party” hyperbole.
Carry on—you’re doing McCain *world’s* of good here! (NOT!)
The Republican primaries are a mess and need to be fixed. The only consolation there is that the Dem primary system is an even bigger mess. A small consolation but entertaining.
Thank you. I appreciate it. That was nice of you. I know that a good many folks share my thoughts on this. I am glad you are one.
We need the current Republican Party and their leaders to die-off in this coming election.
Then maybe...just maybe we can have another conservative resurgence.
I see no one here taking the “absolute set” approach you describe. I do see some saying in essence, “Compromise is OK, but beyond this line I shall not cross”. (Here’s a clue: That’s the stuff of principles)
There may be some baying going on, but I assure you that it is coming from all quarters. Insults aside, I wonder what the difference is between a dinosaur and a dodo? They both are referred to in the past tense...
Agree 100%
What are your thoughts on the upcoming U.S. Supreme Court nominations? Do you really want hillary or Obama with that much power?
“He says that the tax cuts would have been much larger except for John McCain who fought it tooth and nail.”
I’m not positive, but I think McCain fought against the larger tax cuts because he wanted spending cuts.
That said, I heard Delay speak a few weeks ago. He was great.
If John McCain wins the presidency with heavy support from conservatives, then the liberals in the GOP will know that they can count on conservative support regardless of the nominee. They will have no reason to support our issues because they will be assured of our vote regardless of the positions that the GOP takes. If John McCain becomes president, he will set the tone for the GOP for four years, and by that time, he could make the GOP into a party that will no longer support anything that we believe. The party may be marginally less damaging to the country than the Democrat party, but the party will not be one that can lead the country in the right direction.
On the other hand, if John McCain loses, the liberals will realize that they cannot win by nominating a Democrat-lite. They will realize that if they want to win, they have to nominate someone who conservatives can trust. They have to nominate someone who will do good things for the country and not just someone who is less bad than the Democrat. We lose control of the White House for four years, but we don't lose representation of our beliefs by any major party.
Personally, I don't know how I'll respond to John McCain being the nominee. Much of my response will depend on his vice presidential selection and the quality of Republican candidates in the other races. I will likely vote for McCain, but I make no promises. On the other hand, I will support the party much less than I have in the past. I will not give money to McCain or buy his buttons, bumperstickers, or other campaign paraphernalia. For several election cycles, I've taken a day of vacation on election day so that I could gather vote count information to help our get-out-the-vote efforts. Unless I'm just extremely happy with a Congressional candidate, I won't spend a vacation day for the GOP this year. I made hundreds of phone calls and knocked on hundreds of doors for the GOP in 2004. I will not be making those calls or knocking on those doors this year. Maybe I'll make a smaller effort for a Congressional or Senatorial candidate, but I'm not all that excited about the ones I've seen so far.
The GOP won't miss my individual effort, but if other people like me feel the same way and refuse to volunteer this year, the loss of our combined help may hurt the party. The party can't turn its back on people like me and then expect us to keep working just as hard to promote the party. I guess we'll learn whether all of those independents who supposedly like McCain will step up to the plate to get things done.
Bill
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.