[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

The new Mini D is so far only to be sold in Europe

The hybrid vs. diesel debate rages on.

IMHO, it's too early to say where the technology is going. There are just too many possibilities to explore including (in addition to those mentioned in the article):

* plug-in-hybrid -- when the Chevy Volt hits the market, maybe there'll be some real gains. Electricity is very cheap where I live -- a plug-in could save me a lot of money (that is, until governments figure a way to tax it).

* a diesel hybrid -- it's just a matter of getting the cost of a diesel engine down.

* non-battery hybrids -- e.g. pneumatic or hydraulic motors combined with an ICE. There are already some of these on the market (reviewed in previous FR threads).

* Gas-turbine hybrid -- turbines are very efficient, but need to operate at a constant speed and torque -- which they could in a series-hybrid car.

[Red Badger]

Rest In Peace, old friend, your work is finished....... If you want on or off the DIESEL ”KnOcK” LIST just FReepmail me........

This is a fairly HIGH VOLUME ping list on some days......

[stevio]

Sometimes the easiest solution is the best. Diesel is the way to go.

[Izzy Dunne]

carbon dioxide tailpipe emissions

Yeah, that deadly CO2 again.

Hey, I'm just feeding the trees, bro.

[pnh102]

Has anyone noticed why so few car companies have released their 2008 models yet? Usually the next year's models are out by July of the current yet.

I personally think it is because of the EPA's corrected mileage estimates. For example, the Prius goes from 61 MPG to 45 MPG. I am guessing that if a 45MPG Prius is sold next to a "61 MPG" Prius, Toyota is going to have a lot of problems.

[LIConFem]

I think hybrids are just a fad, but a useful one as they represent development of new, more efficient technologies (batteries, for one thing). Not a long-term solution to anything, but a good way to gather empirical data.

[Spktyr]

It should be mentioned that the Honda Accord Hybrid was not about fuel economy uber alles. The Accord Hybrid actually had the same V6 as the gas powered V6 model. The point was better performance first, and fuel economy second.

The Accord Hybrid had *better* performance than the gas-only V6 model - it was considerably faster to 60, for example. It’s fuel consumption was only slightly better than the 4 cylinder Accord, though - and while it was more expensive than the other models, it didn’t look notably different than the rest of the Accord lineup, so the liberals didn’t go nuts for it.

The Accord Hybrid, like the Civic Hybrid is a *car* first, and a hybrid second. Fortunately, they’re selling a lot of Civic Hybrids, at least around here.

[Publius6961]

Well, D'OH!

Give the public something better and they will flock to your door.

Fact is, regardless of the screaming from the irrational kids, hybrids have delivered for the last 6 years or so.

Something better on the horizon?
Great!

[Izzy Dunne]

I recently spent 3 weeks in Italy driving a rented Fiat.
It got about 6.3 L/100kM ( 37 MPG) in ordinary driving.

Even at 150 kph (94 MPH!) on the Autostrade, with A/C on, it got 9 L /100kM (26 MPG).

That's carrying four people and four large luggage bags,

[cynwoody]

I read somewhere that the total environmental impact of building a Prius, driving it 100,000 miles, and junking it (the "dust to dust" analysis) exceeds that of building a Hummer, driving it 300,000 miles, and junking it.

[KarlInOhio]

Typo in the article: If this sounds like your driving lifestyle, you can pretty much forget about achieving the typically surreal fuel consumption estimates that most hybrids cars claim.

Every car's pre-2008 EPA milage rating is based on much better than expected driving conditions.

As for the Accord hybrid: they aimed for a 6 cylinder car's power on a 4 cylinder's fuel usage. People who want a hybrid are in general looking for a 4 cylinder car's power on a 2.5 cylinder fuel usage. Honda just missed the market. A hybrid Civic would have been better.

Does a hybrid solve everything? No. But having the cabability of recovering braking power and not requiring extra engine size just for a little extra start up power is nice.

[eraser2005]

“In addition, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is in the process of updating its fuel consumption testing for the first time in more than 40 years to include real-world conditions. “

The one thing that gets me about this is that there are cars out there that met or exceeded their EPA limits before.

My Taurus has always beaten the EPA estimates. And looking at fueleconomy.gov, I’m not alone. In fact, for every Taurus year and equipment combination back to 1986, owner reports show fuel economy exceeding EPA combined mileage. For my model year (1997), the worst owner report comes in at 23.4 mpg with an overall average of 25.9 mpgThat, on a vehicle that is supposed to get 21 mpg combined, and 26 mpg on the highway alone. Now they say under the new test it gets 16 mpg city, 24 mpg highway.

But real world reports will still show 25.9 mpg combined. The new test is therefore significantly LESS accurate for this model.

That’s my problem - not all models will respond in the same way to a change in driving habits. The old test was overly optimistic for many vehicles, but was right on for some. But testing the vehicle by giving it a more aggressive driving profile doesn’t make the test any more accurate. The only accurate test is real world conditions which will only be reflected through owner reports. And unless you know how those owners are driving, there’s no guarantee that you can’t do better or that you won’t do worse....

[VeniVidiVici]

Although I think the new CAFE standards are just boneheaded wrong (it should be about choice, my friends) it will probably force some of the cooler engine choices that GM, Ford and Chrysler have overseas to be sold here in the States.

[Myrddin]

My Mercury Mariner hybrid gets excellent mileage...around 30 MPG most of the time. There is an "Econ" setting for the air conditioner. It manages the need for engine power for the air conditioner along with the engine vs electric motor mode. The engine cuts off when stopped for a traffic light. You can force the engine on all the time by running the air conditioner in non-economy mode. I've only done that a few times over the last two weeks when ambient temperatures were running 100 to 104.

[Domandred]

Kill the hybrid. My 2-door Geo Metro gets better gas mileage then most hybrids on the market. My 4-door gas power Honda Accord gets a whopping 5mpg less then the average hybrid on the market. I paid less for both combined then I can buy a single hybrid for and end up having less utility, about the same mpg, and half the transport capability in one car instead of two.

Hybrids aren't ready for prime time. Their gas mileage is actually a joke. Unless it's getting 100+ mpg and maintaining speed and range, for a reasonable price, I'm not interested.

[Gay State Conservative]

A few weeks ago I took a MB E320 diesel out for a test drive.I was particularly interested to see what kind of punch it had for merging onto an Interstate.It was an interesting experience but a little rich for my blood at $45K.

[Dan(9698)]

* Gas-turbine hybrid -- turbines are very efficient, but need to operate at a constant speed and torque -- which they could in a series-hybrid car.

This is a myth. Gas-turbines use twice as much fuel as a piston engine. They also use half the fuel of a full jet, so they are more efficient than a full jet, but less efficient than a piston engine.

If you note, large ships now have very large diesel engines and not gas-turban.

[TommyUdo]

From an interview just two days ago...

"Eventually, everything will be a hybrid," said Jim Press, president of Toyota Motor North America, in an interview Tuesday in New York. Hybrids have been driving Toyota's growth in the U.S., he said.

I bought into the hype and bought a Prius a little over three months ago. I'm still learning to drive the thing. I've never averaged below 50mpg in mixed city/freeway driving. My current tank is...

The worst part about owning one is convincing knuckleheads I'm not an environmentalist/liberal/wacko type.

[xjcsa]

In addition to achieving a better-than-60 U.S. m.p.g. (3.9 L/100 km) rating, the Mini D’s carbon dioxide tailpipe emissions are 104 g/km — a figure that, not incidentally, matches the cleaner-than-thou Prius.

Who f***ing cares about carbon dioxide emissions except the Algore ecotard crowd?

[freekitty]

Thank you, Lord. I want a sleek, smooth fast car; not one of those Yugo specials that you have to pedal everywhere(apparently not Gore’s son).

[CharlesWayneCT]

I really like the mini-cooper, but isn’t it really just another “status symbol” car? My daughter wants one of those mini-coopers, I couldn’t believe how expensive they were given how small they are.