Posted on 07/12/2007 11:13:17 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
Rumblings in the automotive world suggest that Honda killing its Accord hybrid may have been just the canary in the over-hyped hybrid coal mine. Honda’s decision raises the question: Are hybrids just a fad -- a short-term solution to a long-term problem?
Until now, the big reason why people bought hybrids was the dual promise of frugal fuel consumption and zero emissions — save your money, save the Earth.
Trouble is, the media has generated enough hybrid hype that dealers are reluctant to negotiate on the purchase price. Beyond the current get-‘em-while-you-can government rebates, zero per cent financing or cash-back incentives on hybrids in Canada are about as rare as free gas.
Hybrid operating costs also need to be heeded.
Do you drive at the speed of traffic on the highway in less than ideal conditions (i.e., when it's windy and the road is hilly?) Or live in a climate where you use your car’s defroster or air conditioning (which, here in Ottawa, where we go from winter frost to summer humidity over lunch, is about 365 days of the year)? Using the condenser in the A/C system uses more power, which uses more fuel.
If this sounds like your driving lifestyle, you can pretty much forget about achieving the typically surreal fuel consumption estimates that most hybrids claim.
(In addition, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is in the process of updating its fuel consumption testing for the first time in more than 40 years to include real-world conditions. Not surprisingly, hybrids — like all other cars — take a beating. Some experts are estimating a 20 per cent increase in consumption compared to the current EPA ratings.)
The final reason hybrids may end up as a passing fancy is that, in a traditional sense, they effectively remove the act of driving as a visceral experience.
So hybrids are expensive to own, don’t deliver on advertised fuel consumption and are about as exciting to drive as a Kenmore side-by-side. Yet hybrid fans can absolve their vehicles of all these sins by self-righteously claiming ownership of the low emissions crown, right?
Yes, up until now.
New car customers are demanding vehicles that are cleaner, and more fuel-efficient — without the extra costs and driving compromises that are inherent with hybrids. And automakers are responding.
One example is the very non-hybrid Mini D. Not planned for Canada (yet), it will arrive in Europe later this summer.
The “D” is for diesel. And if you’re thinking, “Oooo, a stinky, soot emitting diesel” you would be wrong. In addition to achieving a better-than-60 U.S. m.p.g. (3.9 L/100 km) rating, the Mini D’s carbon dioxide tailpipe emissions are 104 g/km — a figure that, not incidentally, matches the cleaner-than-thou Prius.
And it’s not just the Mini D that can achieve hybrid-like fuel consumption and emissions without asking owners to sacrifice traditional car ownership expectations.
By way of stop-and-start technologies, sophisticated aerodynamics or the use of low weight materials, European-only cars like BMW’s 118 D, Volkswagen’s Polo Bluemotion or Peugeot 107 are not only mean with fuel, but also green.
Hybrids have been perceived as a panacea to our planet’s non-renewable energy and dirty skies crisis. But they’re really only one solution. There needs to be a greater variety of “green” vehicles that can meet the diversity of people’s needs, which would have a further-reaching positive environmental impact.
As a more mainstream solution that’s cheaper to own, and more fun to drive, maybe we can look at what Honda will be replacing its Accord hybrid with in 2009: an ultra clean 2.2-litre D-I-E-S-E-L.
Who f***ing cares about carbon dioxide emissions except the Algore ecotard crowd?
Thank you, Lord. I want a sleek, smooth fast car; not one of those Yugo specials that you have to pedal everywhere(apparently not Gore’s son).
Not with a dyno tune and a better exhaust, it’s not. :)
Hybrids can be downright deadly on Emergency crews trying to saw through body panels and door frames to free people trapped in wrecks. The state of the electrical system cannot be determined from the outside, and there is no external ‘master disconnect’ to safe the battery pack.
Their exhaust is terribly hot, and lots of it also.
I recall Chrysler built 50 GTurb. cars and gave them to people to drive, then switched them to other folks.
They wanted feedback as they were considering production.
One of the warnings was ' don't sit in one place very long ( long stoplights was about max.) or the exhaust will melt the asphalt.
Saw one in Miami.
I really like the mini-cooper, but isn’t it really just another “status symbol” car? My daughter wants one of those mini-coopers, I couldn’t believe how expensive they were given how small they are.
Yes, you read it, but it is wrong. And if you think about it for a minute, you’ll realise it has to be wrong.
Because nobody is selling you a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of stuff for $25,000.
Of course, that’s ignoring the absurd notion that someone would junk a car after only 100,000 miles.
Even in Japan, where their emmissions and inspection standards are so harsh that most cars are only driven 7 years or so, the Prius is kept for well over 100,000 miles.
Go see how many non-accident Prius cars you can find in a junk yard.
Actually, I was looking for a car that would perform the jobs I needed to do the most efficiently.
The Prius transports me and my family wherever we want to go, including vacations, at about a 3rd of the cost of our old Plymouth Voyager van. The pickup/acceleration is almost as good as the van, and better in some ranges, the car is rock-solid, reliable, I love the shiftless acceleration, maintenance is nearly non-existant, and I pollute a lot less.
If I needed 4-wheel drive, or to haul equipment around, I’d buy a car or truck that did that. But I just need to haul a few people around, and there’s no need to overspend for that.
Have you thought about putting a Bush/Cheney sticker on it?
I’ll tell you what. I’ll bring my Prius, you bring your Geo Metro, and we’ll see who gets better mileage on a commute into DC in the morning in Northern Virginia.
In optimal driving conditions, a small-engined car will generally be able to do as well as a Prius. After all, the Prius is essentially a gasoline-engine-powered car.
What all the extra stuff does for the Prius is make it run optimally even when the conditions are NOT optimal. If you are doing stop-and-go, it captures the energy rather than wasting it heating the brakes. If you stop, the engine stops. If you accelerate fast, instead of revving up the gas engine and putting it into a low-efficiency band of operation, it throws electricity into the electric motor instead, hoping to replenish it when you don’t need the power by operating the gas engine in a high-efficiency band.
In the end, the Prius is a mid-sized car, and it will take the energy required to move a mid-sized car from one place to another. It’s a little better aerodynamically, but other than that it’s all special tricks to optimize the energy usage.
I can drive 10 miles in an hour in stop-and-go traffic, and at the end of the hour my mileage will still be 40+mpg. Try that in a car that doesn’t shut off the engine when it stops, or have an electric motor for short starts/stops.
They have much better diesel fuel than we do as well, low-sulpher mixture.
So, are you planning to junk your car in 5000 miles? :-)
So, are you planning to junk your car in 10,000 miles :-)
The only place the battery power goes is from the pack directly to the engine inverter, right down the middle under the car. There’s no way to cut those cables getting through doors or windows, there’s a quick-disconnect in the trunk at the battery back, and the voltage while high (250 voltes) isn’t necessarily deadly with the equipment they are already wearing to do rescue (their gloves and masks and clothes which protect them from heat and chemicals).
There is some training provided to emergency crews, but I’ve not read of any injuries from the high-voltage battery pack.
Rather than have large batteries I think hybrids should buy and sell electricity from a power line running along freeways and highly traveled roads. Using induction coils the connection and power lines would be invisible. The cars could use biodiesel for off grid driving, or anything else that works out.
Generating electricity at a power plant is always much cheaper than using a small engine, plus an assortment of energy sources could be used. This also opens the door for automatic driving by computer and for cars to bunch up closely into a virtual train, boosting lane capacity dramatically.
The current hybrid technology will change but the basic idea of a hybrid will make sense for a long time.
Take a look at a Jetta TDI you can expect 35 city 43 highway mpg and with the turbo powered diesel engine a surprising amount of punch for around $25-$27K which is much more affordable than the Mercedes. I think the 2008 Jetta has a new 130 HP turbo (my 2006 only 100 HP turbo)which promises a little more kick without any loss of mileage. The new engines are also real clean burning as well.
I have no beef with prius owners, it’s dickheads with an agenda that really bug me. You don’t seem like that type. Glad you like your little car.
TDI is a far better solution than Hybrids, though I don’t agree that the Honda kill is a death knell for the hybrid boondoggle. Honda killed it because the Hybrid didn’t perform any better on gas mileage and cost more than the gas version... so sales were nothing.
Even better would be a Hybrid with a "Cheney '08" sticker on it.
It shows you aren't living in the past.
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