Bye-bye hybrid?

Wheels.ca ^ | Jul 11, 2007 | John Leblanc

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

Rumblings in the automotive world suggest that Honda killing its Accord hybrid may have been just the canary in the over-hyped hybrid coal mine. Honda’s decision raises the question: Are hybrids just a fad -- a short-term solution to a long-term problem?

Until now, the big reason why people bought hybrids was the dual promise of frugal fuel consumption and zero emissions — save your money, save the Earth.

Trouble is, the media has generated enough hybrid hype that dealers are reluctant to negotiate on the purchase price. Beyond the current get-‘em-while-you-can government rebates, zero per cent financing or cash-back incentives on hybrids in Canada are about as rare as free gas.

Hybrid operating costs also need to be heeded.



Do you drive at the speed of traffic on the highway in less than ideal conditions (i.e., when it's windy and the road is hilly?) Or live in a climate where you use your car’s defroster or air conditioning (which, here in Ottawa, where we go from winter frost to summer humidity over lunch, is about 365 days of the year)? Using the condenser in the A/C system uses more power, which uses more fuel.

If this sounds like your driving lifestyle, you can pretty much forget about achieving the typically surreal fuel consumption estimates that most hybrids claim.

(In addition, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is in the process of updating its fuel consumption testing for the first time in more than 40 years to include real-world conditions. Not surprisingly, hybrids — like all other cars — take a beating. Some experts are estimating a 20 per cent increase in consumption compared to the current EPA ratings.)

The final reason hybrids may end up as a passing fancy is that, in a traditional sense, they effectively remove the act of driving as a visceral experience.

So hybrids are expensive to own, don’t deliver on advertised fuel consumption and are about as exciting to drive as a Kenmore side-by-side. Yet hybrid fans can absolve their vehicles of all these sins by self-righteously claiming ownership of the low emissions crown, right?

Yes, up until now.

New car customers are demanding vehicles that are cleaner, and more fuel-efficient — without the extra costs and driving compromises that are inherent with hybrids. And automakers are responding.

One example is the very non-hybrid Mini D. Not planned for Canada (yet), it will arrive in Europe later this summer.

The “D” is for diesel. And if you’re thinking, “Oooo, a stinky, soot emitting diesel” you would be wrong. In addition to achieving a better-than-60 U.S. m.p.g. (3.9 L/100 km) rating, the Mini D’s carbon dioxide tailpipe emissions are 104 g/km — a figure that, not incidentally, matches the cleaner-than-thou Prius.

And it’s not just the Mini D that can achieve hybrid-like fuel consumption and emissions without asking owners to sacrifice traditional car ownership expectations.

By way of stop-and-start technologies, sophisticated aerodynamics or the use of low weight materials, European-only cars like BMW’s 118 D, Volkswagen’s Polo Bluemotion or Peugeot 107 are not only mean with fuel, but also green.

Hybrids have been perceived as a panacea to our planet’s non-renewable energy and dirty skies crisis. But they’re really only one solution. There needs to be a greater variety of “green” vehicles that can meet the diversity of people’s needs, which would have a further-reaching positive environmental impact.

As a more mainstream solution that’s cheaper to own, and more fun to drive, maybe we can look at what Honda will be replacing its Accord hybrid with in 2009: an ultra clean 2.2-litre D-I-E-S-E-L.

[Myrddin]

My Mercury Mariner hybrid gets excellent mileage...around 30 MPG most of the time. There is an "Econ" setting for the air conditioner. It manages the need for engine power for the air conditioner along with the engine vs electric motor mode. The engine cuts off when stopped for a traffic light. You can force the engine on all the time by running the air conditioner in non-economy mode. I've only done that a few times over the last two weeks when ambient temperatures were running 100 to 104.

[Domandred]

Kill the hybrid. My 2-door Geo Metro gets better gas mileage then most hybrids on the market. My 4-door gas power Honda Accord gets a whopping 5mpg less then the average hybrid on the market. I paid less for both combined then I can buy a single hybrid for and end up having less utility, about the same mpg, and half the transport capability in one car instead of two.

Hybrids aren't ready for prime time. Their gas mileage is actually a joke. Unless it's getting 100+ mpg and maintaining speed and range, for a reasonable price, I'm not interested.

[eraser2005]

Actually, most are out in September to October timeframe.

The plants traditionally shut down in July for 2 weeks and changeover models at that point. They then need to run for awhile to build an inventory before the marketing push really begins.

Of course, you do see a trickle of models early, and there are always the new ones out in January...

For example, Ford began selling the 2008 Taurus in late June. There still aren’t enough out there to justify a big marketing push yet, though. The 2008 Escape, 2008 Escape Hybrid, and 2008 Super Duty are all on sale now as well.

[stevio]

Diesels are very popular in envirowacko Europe. It just goes to show how much more whacked we are on this issue.

[Prokopton]

Even at 150 kph (94 MPH!) on the Autostrade, with A/C on, it got 9 L /100kM (26 MPG).

My big, heavy, 290 horsepower, double overhead cam, 32 valve V8, Lincoln Mark VIII gets 27 mpg at 75 mph, and it's ten years old. Progress seems to be very slow.

[Spktyr]

Um, they do make a hybrid Civic.

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

You Taurus owners seem to have good driving habits. I’m a total lead-foot myself — way beyond redemption.

[Spktyr]

Except that something even heavier (the 300C SRT8) now gets 27 mpg with a *500* horsepower engine.

[KarlInOhio]

Um, they do make a hybrid Civic.

I say jump and Honda jumps. Or maybe Honda jumps and then I tell them to jump.

[VeniVidiVici]

Are the CAFE standards being updated for the new testing method, or is this just a back door way of requiring better gas mileage?

That's a good question. I was wondering the same myself.

[eraser2005]

Massachusetts didn’t exactly ban diesels. They just made the emissions requirements so tight no company was able to meet them.

Low sulfur diesel and new tech will meet those emissions requirements, however... expect to see diesels slowly come back...

[CodeToad]

I have a 2006 Dodge 1500 truck with the MDS Hemi 5.7L with 345hp and it gets 28mpg at < 65mph on the highway. It kicks down to 4 cylinders when the power isn’t needed.

[Gay State Conservative]

A few weeks ago I took a MB E320 diesel out for a test drive.I was particularly interested to see what kind of punch it had for merging onto an Interstate.It was an interesting experience but a little rich for my blood at $45K.

[NCLaw441]

I always thought that the mpg ratings were for comparison only, and that everyone knew you never got what was shown on those ratings. I just got past 90,000 miles on my 2005 Prius (purchased in 11/04) and my average mpg is around 49.5. Some tanks much better (recently had a 53 mpg tank for around 500 miles driven), few tanks less than 48 mpg. Compared to my last car, a VW Passat 4 cylinder turbo (24 mpg overall on premium gas), I am doing well.

I do have to re-educate people who think I am “green.” While I don’t try to harm the environment, for me buying the Prius was about saving gas and having a “gadgety” car to play with, since I am in it so much. My wife really likes it, too. It is easy for my kids (15 year olds with learners’ permits) to drive. I never have to take the key out of my pocket. The lights turn off when you get out of the car. It is just a fun, economical car.

[SIDENET]

Sometimes the easiest solution is the best. Diesel is the way to go.

I'll gladly take a Dodge Ram 2500 witht the Cummins 5.9 or new 6.7 engine. I love those things.

[Prokopton]

Except that something even heavier (the 300C SRT8) now gets 27 mpg with a *500* horsepower engine.

Nah, it's only got 425 horsepower and the EPA estimate is 18 on the highway. Nice car though, I looked at one when they were selling them to anyone with the employee discount. Couldn't quite swing it. :(

[Dan(9698)]

* Gas-turbine hybrid -- turbines are very efficient, but need to operate at a constant speed and torque -- which they could in a series-hybrid car.

This is a myth. Gas-turbines use twice as much fuel as a piston engine. They also use half the fuel of a full jet, so they are more efficient than a full jet, but less efficient than a piston engine.

If you note, large ships now have very large diesel engines and not gas-turban.

[Clam Digger]

FR thread here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1800912/posts

[TommyUdo]

From an interview just two days ago...

"Eventually, everything will be a hybrid," said Jim Press, president of Toyota Motor North America, in an interview Tuesday in New York. Hybrids have been driving Toyota's growth in the U.S., he said.

I bought into the hype and bought a Prius a little over three months ago. I'm still learning to drive the thing. I've never averaged below 50mpg in mixed city/freeway driving. My current tank is...

The worst part about owning one is convincing knuckleheads I'm not an environmentalist/liberal/wacko type.

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

Gas-turbines are very inefficient at idling speeds — they’re best if they’re revved up to optimal speed all the time. In a non-hybrid car, turbines would have horrible mileage.

Turbines also have horrible acceleration (low torque) compared to piston engines with the same horsepower.

A hybrid system would eliminate both problems.

Gas-turbines are also very fuel-flexible -- so switching between (say) gasoline, diesel, ethanol, and bio-diesel would be easy.