Bye-bye hybrid?

Wheels.ca ^ | Jul 11, 2007 | John Leblanc

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

Rumblings in the automotive world suggest that Honda killing its Accord hybrid may have been just the canary in the over-hyped hybrid coal mine. Honda’s decision raises the question: Are hybrids just a fad -- a short-term solution to a long-term problem?

Until now, the big reason why people bought hybrids was the dual promise of frugal fuel consumption and zero emissions — save your money, save the Earth.

Trouble is, the media has generated enough hybrid hype that dealers are reluctant to negotiate on the purchase price. Beyond the current get-‘em-while-you-can government rebates, zero per cent financing or cash-back incentives on hybrids in Canada are about as rare as free gas.

Hybrid operating costs also need to be heeded.



Do you drive at the speed of traffic on the highway in less than ideal conditions (i.e., when it's windy and the road is hilly?) Or live in a climate where you use your car’s defroster or air conditioning (which, here in Ottawa, where we go from winter frost to summer humidity over lunch, is about 365 days of the year)? Using the condenser in the A/C system uses more power, which uses more fuel.

If this sounds like your driving lifestyle, you can pretty much forget about achieving the typically surreal fuel consumption estimates that most hybrids claim.

(In addition, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is in the process of updating its fuel consumption testing for the first time in more than 40 years to include real-world conditions. Not surprisingly, hybrids — like all other cars — take a beating. Some experts are estimating a 20 per cent increase in consumption compared to the current EPA ratings.)

The final reason hybrids may end up as a passing fancy is that, in a traditional sense, they effectively remove the act of driving as a visceral experience.

So hybrids are expensive to own, don’t deliver on advertised fuel consumption and are about as exciting to drive as a Kenmore side-by-side. Yet hybrid fans can absolve their vehicles of all these sins by self-righteously claiming ownership of the low emissions crown, right?

Yes, up until now.

New car customers are demanding vehicles that are cleaner, and more fuel-efficient — without the extra costs and driving compromises that are inherent with hybrids. And automakers are responding.

One example is the very non-hybrid Mini D. Not planned for Canada (yet), it will arrive in Europe later this summer.

The “D” is for diesel. And if you’re thinking, “Oooo, a stinky, soot emitting diesel” you would be wrong. In addition to achieving a better-than-60 U.S. m.p.g. (3.9 L/100 km) rating, the Mini D’s carbon dioxide tailpipe emissions are 104 g/km — a figure that, not incidentally, matches the cleaner-than-thou Prius.

And it’s not just the Mini D that can achieve hybrid-like fuel consumption and emissions without asking owners to sacrifice traditional car ownership expectations.

By way of stop-and-start technologies, sophisticated aerodynamics or the use of low weight materials, European-only cars like BMW’s 118 D, Volkswagen’s Polo Bluemotion or Peugeot 107 are not only mean with fuel, but also green.

Hybrids have been perceived as a panacea to our planet’s non-renewable energy and dirty skies crisis. But they’re really only one solution. There needs to be a greater variety of “green” vehicles that can meet the diversity of people’s needs, which would have a further-reaching positive environmental impact.

As a more mainstream solution that’s cheaper to own, and more fun to drive, maybe we can look at what Honda will be replacing its Accord hybrid with in 2009: an ultra clean 2.2-litre D-I-E-S-E-L.

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

The new Mini D is so far only to be sold in Europe

The hybrid vs. diesel debate rages on.

IMHO, it's too early to say where the technology is going. There are just too many possibilities to explore including (in addition to those mentioned in the article):

* plug-in-hybrid -- when the Chevy Volt hits the market, maybe there'll be some real gains. Electricity is very cheap where I live -- a plug-in could save me a lot of money (that is, until governments figure a way to tax it).

* a diesel hybrid -- it's just a matter of getting the cost of a diesel engine down.

* non-battery hybrids -- e.g. pneumatic or hydraulic motors combined with an ICE. There are already some of these on the market (reviewed in previous FR threads).

* Gas-turbine hybrid -- turbines are very efficient, but need to operate at a constant speed and torque -- which they could in a series-hybrid car.

[Red Badger]

Rest In Peace, old friend, your work is finished....... If you want on or off the DIESEL ”KnOcK” LIST just FReepmail me........

This is a fairly HIGH VOLUME ping list on some days......

[stevio]

Sometimes the easiest solution is the best. Diesel is the way to go.

[Izzy Dunne]

carbon dioxide tailpipe emissions

Yeah, that deadly CO2 again.

Hey, I'm just feeding the trees, bro.

[Abathar]

Looks like common sense might actually be making headway over the emotional left’s dream for our future....

[pnh102]

Has anyone noticed why so few car companies have released their 2008 models yet? Usually the next year's models are out by July of the current yet.

I personally think it is because of the EPA's corrected mileage estimates. For example, the Prius goes from 61 MPG to 45 MPG. I am guessing that if a 45MPG Prius is sold next to a "61 MPG" Prius, Toyota is going to have a lot of problems.

[LIConFem]

I think hybrids are just a fad, but a useful one as they represent development of new, more efficient technologies (batteries, for one thing). Not a long-term solution to anything, but a good way to gather empirical data.

[mowowie]

Here in tiny MA we go by the California emmisions standards cause apparently our air pollution is just so out of control ????

The sale of Diesel cars are banned here.

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

I’m with you on the CO2 thing — but, I’m interested in technology that will save me money & stem the flow of money to M.E. trouble spots. (I won’t mind if the U.S. wants to continue sending money to Canada — to pay for our oil, rather than developing your own supplies locked up by “environmentalists”)

[Spktyr]

It should be mentioned that the Honda Accord Hybrid was not about fuel economy uber alles. The Accord Hybrid actually had the same V6 as the gas powered V6 model. The point was better performance first, and fuel economy second.

The Accord Hybrid had *better* performance than the gas-only V6 model - it was considerably faster to 60, for example. It’s fuel consumption was only slightly better than the 4 cylinder Accord, though - and while it was more expensive than the other models, it didn’t look notably different than the rest of the Accord lineup, so the liberals didn’t go nuts for it.

The Accord Hybrid, like the Civic Hybrid is a *car* first, and a hybrid second. Fortunately, they’re selling a lot of Civic Hybrids, at least around here.

[Publius6961]

Well, D'OH!

Give the public something better and they will flock to your door.

Fact is, regardless of the screaming from the irrational kids, hybrids have delivered for the last 6 years or so.

Something better on the horizon?
Great!

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

“The sale of Diesel cars are banned here.”

That’s just nuts.

[Izzy Dunne]

I recently spent 3 weeks in Italy driving a rented Fiat.
It got about 6.3 L/100kM ( 37 MPG) in ordinary driving.

Even at 150 kph (94 MPH!) on the Autostrade, with A/C on, it got 9 L /100kM (26 MPG).

That's carrying four people and four large luggage bags,

[cynwoody]

I read somewhere that the total environmental impact of building a Prius, driving it 100,000 miles, and junking it (the "dust to dust" analysis) exceeds that of building a Hummer, driving it 300,000 miles, and junking it.

[massgopguy]

He said MA, didn’t he? Actually I think that you cannot even go to a surrounding state, buy or lease and then register a “new” diesel in MA. But you can get it used.

[KarlInOhio]

Typo in the article: If this sounds like your driving lifestyle, you can pretty much forget about achieving the typically surreal fuel consumption estimates that most hybrids cars claim.

Every car's pre-2008 EPA milage rating is based on much better than expected driving conditions.

As for the Accord hybrid: they aimed for a 6 cylinder car's power on a 4 cylinder's fuel usage. People who want a hybrid are in general looking for a 4 cylinder car's power on a 2.5 cylinder fuel usage. Honda just missed the market. A hybrid Civic would have been better.

Does a hybrid solve everything? No. But having the cabability of recovering braking power and not requiring extra engine size just for a little extra start up power is nice.

[eraser2005]

“In addition, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is in the process of updating its fuel consumption testing for the first time in more than 40 years to include real-world conditions. “

The one thing that gets me about this is that there are cars out there that met or exceeded their EPA limits before.

My Taurus has always beaten the EPA estimates. And looking at fueleconomy.gov, I’m not alone. In fact, for every Taurus year and equipment combination back to 1986, owner reports show fuel economy exceeding EPA combined mileage. For my model year (1997), the worst owner report comes in at 23.4 mpg with an overall average of 25.9 mpgThat, on a vehicle that is supposed to get 21 mpg combined, and 26 mpg on the highway alone. Now they say under the new test it gets 16 mpg city, 24 mpg highway.

But real world reports will still show 25.9 mpg combined. The new test is therefore significantly LESS accurate for this model.

That’s my problem - not all models will respond in the same way to a change in driving habits. The old test was overly optimistic for many vehicles, but was right on for some. But testing the vehicle by giving it a more aggressive driving profile doesn’t make the test any more accurate. The only accurate test is real world conditions which will only be reflected through owner reports. And unless you know how those owners are driving, there’s no guarantee that you can’t do better or that you won’t do worse....

[VeniVidiVici]

Although I think the new CAFE standards are just boneheaded wrong (it should be about choice, my friends) it will probably force some of the cooler engine choices that GM, Ford and Chrysler have overseas to be sold here in the States.

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

You might be right — diesel is certainly the best solution in a lot of situations.

Plug-in hybrids would make it possible to use coal or nuclear power (or wind, or solar, etc.) to power automobiles. That would be a big advantage in the U.S. — where you have plenty of coal, but not so much oil. (We’ve got all the bases covered here in Canada — except perhaps for solar.)

[KarlInOhio]

Are the CAFE standards being updated for the new testing method, or is this just a back door way of requiring better gas mileage?