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British humiliation becomes disgrace
Telegraph UK ^ | 4/9/2007 | Toby Harnden

Posted on 04/09/2007 9:58:23 AM PDT by Uncledave

British humiliation becomes disgrace Posted by Toby Harnden at 09 Apr 07 09:58

So now they can sell their stories? The Ministry of Defence believes the Tehran 15 should be treated like troops who have won the Victoria Cross. Britain's political and military leaders hail their "dignity" - and then give them the green light to profit from their abject capitulation.

Rather than courts martial for the top brass, expect gongs for the ex-hostages. The Government and Royal Navy seem to think they can wash away the humiliation in a sea of sentimental twaddle. Iran is laughing. Has Britain gone completely soft?

Harsh? I don't think so. Lasting damage has been done to Britain's reputation, never mind that of the RN and Royal Marines.

And the utterances of the Defence Secretary ("They acted with great dignity throughout."), Chief of Defence Staff ("They did exactly as they should have done...we are proud of them.") and First Sea Lord ("considerable dignity and a lot of courage") are beginning to explain why the 15 acted the way they did and seem somewhat bemused by the justified outcry.

It's one thing to stand by your subordinates but these talking points smack of a whitewash.

Servicemen and women should be held to a higher standard than civilians, though listening to the six of the 15 who spoke on their return it was hard to believe these were military personnel. Read the transcript here.

So what should be done about this debacle? First, Tony Blair should step in now and direct that monies any of the 15 receive from newspapers as a result of their "ordeal" should be donated to the Royal Navy Benevolent Trust.

Second, a naval Board of Inquiry - leading to possible courts martial for the captain of HMS Cornwall and other senior officers - should be held into the circumstances surrounding the seizing of the two RIBs by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.

Here are some questions the board should address. Why was HMS Cornwall not able to protect its sailors and marines? Why did the Lynx helicopter leave station before the boarding was complete? Why did the Rules of Engagement not permit the 15 to open fire until it was too late?

Why were the 15 apparently unprepared for what was mild mistreatment and some fairly basic mind games? Lieutenant Felix Carman RN, the senior officer among them, stated: "The questions were aggressive and handling rough but it was no worse than that." Watch him chatting to Iranian TV here, offering to "promote" the country and hoping he will return.

Why is Britain training officers who seem to think that their number one priority is to do nothing that could risk the lives of personnel? Why did they not have the most basic appreciation of how their briefings and apologies in front of nautical charts would be used for propaganda purposes?

Why did many of the 15 - with Lt Carman front and centre - believe it was appropriate to greet the news of their release with giddy excitement, grins, waves, back-slapping and grovelling gratitude to President Ahmadinejad ?

We can already see a split developing among the 15. "The Sunday Times" quotes Acting Sergeant Dean Harris as saying: ""I want £70,000. That is based on what the others have told me they have been offered. I know Faye has been offered a heck more than that. I am worth it because I was one of only two who didn't crack."

Take a look again at that now notorious photo of 13 of the 15 in Tehran just after the love-in with Ahmadinejad.

I've been poring over the faces. From left to right, you can see Operator/Maintainer Simon Massey, Leading Seaman Faye Turney, LS Simon Coe, Lt Carman, Marine Adam Sperry, OM Arthur Batchelor, Mne Joe Tindell (face half obscured), OM Andrew Henderson, Mne Mark Banks, Captain Chris Air and Mne Danny Masterton.

As I've noted previously, Banks, Capt Air and Masterton look distinctly uncomfortable with what's going on. Sperry and Tindell are at the back and don't seem to be waving. Which leaves us with six naval personnel behaving like goofballs.

Chief Petty Officer Gavin Cavendish (the most senior of the 15 apart from the two officers) , OM Nathan Summers, Acting Sgt Harris and Mne Paul Barton are either absent or not in the picture. Summers had already apologised profusely for "trespassing" and he can be seen in other footage smiling at his goody bag - so we can add him to the six other RN goofballs.

So it seems there was a division between the RN and RM personnel - perhaps not surprising given the difference in training. Exposing the rivalries and different responses from within the group will be terrible for service and ship morale.

I've re-watched the return press conference (in which Carman, Air, Massey, Batchelor, Tindell and Sperry spoke). Note how Air and Carman refer to LS Turney as "Faye" (Carman: "Faye is a young mother and a wife"; Air: "Being in an Islamic country, Faye was subjected to different rules than we were.")

To me, that betrays a lot. Officers should refer to sailors by their rank and surname. To do otherwise is an insult to their professional status. But then look at the MoD website in which Air and Carman are listed as "Chris" and "Felix" - this slack ethos comes from the top.

Any sense of a command structure appears to have broken down. Carman stated: "We all at one time or another made a conscious decision to make a controlled release of non-operational information."

He also said that the choice they were given was "if we admitted that we had strayed we would be back on a plane to the U.K. pretty soon; if we didn't, we faced up to seven years in prison". It seems clear what most chose.

In her depressing paid interview with "The Sun" today, the effing, fag-smoking (well, she is a matelot) and deeply unimpressive LS Turney states: "If I did it [confessed] , I feared everyone in Britain would hate me. But I knew it was my one chance of fulfilling a promise to Molly [her daughter] that I'd be home for her birthday on May 8th." Oh, so that's OK then.

Carman and Air maintain that they never released operational information. They probably didn't - boarding parties would have had relatively little to impart anyway. But the two officers seemed to have no appreciation that signed and filmed confessions, enthusiastic cooperation and effusive gratitude could be every bit as damaging to Britain as giving away secrets.

The 15 personnel are not those most at fault here. They were serving their country and trying to do their best and were badly let down by those who trained, briefed and tasked them. The response of much of the British media illustrates the culture of soppiness that has taken hold of the country.

News about the selling of the stories may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Many of those who had previously held back now seem to be letting rip. My guess is the scandal surrounding this shameful episode is only just getting going.

In the meantime, those of us who are proud to have served in the Royal Navy and HMS Cornwall can only shake our heads in disbelief and sadness. Posted by Toby Harnden at 09 Apr 07 09:58


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: deathofthewest; dhimmi; eloi; shame
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John Derbyshire laments: http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MDYwMmVmMDYxYmZhODk0Yzc1N2Q1N2JhNmQ0Yzg2MDg=

1 posted on 04/09/2007 9:58:24 AM PDT by Uncledave
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To: Uncledave

Derb’s comments:
********

I am at the point with this business about the British hostages where I really can’t trust myself to post any more, I’m so mad. Toby Harnden indeed says much of what needs saying, but I think he is too kind to the enlisted men. They are saps and worms, insults to the Queen’s uniform. I’d better change track right here—see what I mean?

One thing the whole business has revealed to me is how it is possible to hate your own country, a thing I never understood before. Not that I hate my country—which is, as of five years this coming April 19th, the blessed U.S. of A. I maintain strong sentimental ties to England, though, and I’ve been burning with anger and shame at the dishonor these giggling buffoons have brought to their country, the country of my ancestors (all English, for as far back as I know), the country I was raised in. Yes, there have been moments when I’ve hated England.

I’ve told this story before, so I hope I’ll be forgiven for telling it again. My Mum, Esther Alice Knowles (1912-98), eleventh child of a pick’n’shovel coal miner, in one of the last conversations I had with her, said: “I know I’m dying, but I don’t mind. At least I knew England when she was England.”

I discounted that at the time. Old people always grumble about the state of the world. Now I understand it, though. I even feel a bit the same way myself. I caught the tail-end of that old England—that bumptious, arrogant, self-confident old England, the England of complicated games, snobbery, irony, repression, and stoicism, the England of suet puddings, drafty houses, coal smoke and bad teeth, the England of throat-catching poetry and gardens and tweeds, the England that civilized the whole world and gave an example of adult behavior—the English Gentleman—that was admired from Peking (I can testify) to Peru.

It’s all gone now, “dead as mutton,” as English people used to say. Now there is nothing there but a flock of whimpering Eloi, giggling over their gadgets, whining for their handouts, crying for their Mummies, playing at soldiering for reasons they can no longer understand, from lingering habit. Lower the corpse down slowly, shovel in the earth. England is dead.


2 posted on 04/09/2007 9:59:11 AM PDT by Uncledave
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To: Uncledave

bttt


3 posted on 04/09/2007 10:02:26 AM PDT by CDHart ("It's too late to work within the system and too early to shoot the b@#$%^&s."--Claire Wolfe)
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To: Uncledave

My fiancee is in the process of leaving England, she shares the sentiment that the England she is leaving isn’t the England she grew up in and loved, she can’t get out fast enough. Sad...


4 posted on 04/09/2007 10:06:15 AM PDT by Oshkalaboomboom
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To: Uncledave

The Princess Diana funeral was the first big public exposure of the new England, but the signs were already there in Tony Blair’s Airstrip One, from the “Cool Britannia” slogan on down. Individual Brits can be as gritty and sang-froid as they ever were, but as a society they appear to be in irreversible decline.


5 posted on 04/09/2007 10:07:19 AM PDT by Argus
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To: Uncledave

You know, if I were a bit more cynical, I’d be inclined to think that somebody’s trying to crank-up Tommy’s ire at the whole situation and get him spanking mad at the MoHAMheads in general and the Persian MonkeyMan in particular.

If so, it appears to be working.


6 posted on 04/09/2007 10:07:46 AM PDT by Westbrook (Having more children does not divide your love, it multiplies it!)
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To: Uncledave
The Western World has been Oprahified. Feelings matter more than considerations of honor and valor. People without dignity are men of straw and their vacuous display of feelings only reveals their inner emptiness of worth.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

7 posted on 04/09/2007 10:13:05 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Uncledave

bump


8 posted on 04/09/2007 10:13:20 AM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: Oshkalaboomboom
>the England she is leaving isn’t the England she grew up in and loved

Lots of folks wondered
why the Brits hadn't taken
better precautions

to protect their guys
that went on board the freighter.
I couldn't think of

a scenario
not even a tin foil one
that explained this stuff.

But I'm wondering
if within the Brit Navy
there are power blocs

that wanted this thing
to happen just as it did
as an example

of just how screwed up
PC pols and their thinking
have made the Navy.

This makes their point clear,
more so than any speeches
ever could have done.

9 posted on 04/09/2007 10:13:27 AM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: Uncledave
In her depressing paid interview with "The Sun" today, the effing, fag-smoking (well, she is a matelot) and deeply unimpressive LS Turney states: "If I did it [confessed] , I feared everyone in Britain would hate me. But I knew it was my one chance of fulfilling a promise to Molly [her daughter] that I'd be home for her birthday on May 8th." Oh, so that's OK then.

She makes all arguements against women in combat seem mild. Her comments read like satire. This whole affair has been very depressing.

10 posted on 04/09/2007 10:14:09 AM PDT by pgkdan (Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions - G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Uncledave
The 3 on the right indicates there is still some grits amongst the Brits.
11 posted on 04/09/2007 10:17:04 AM PDT by DogBarkTree (The correct word isnt "immigrant" when what they are doing is "invading".)
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To: Uncledave
a flock of whimpering Eloi,

Great post. Sadly, I don't think the US is far behind. Forget the cowboys, get ready for the Eloi.

12 posted on 04/09/2007 10:17:33 AM PDT by livius
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To: Uncledave

These men and the woman volunteered to serve and were put in harm’s way. I have never been in the military, let alone served in a combat zone and I am darn sure not going to question the courage of those who have. If war veterans want to criticize the behavoir of these sailors, let them. But I will not.


13 posted on 04/09/2007 10:18:17 AM PDT by soccermom
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To: Uncledave

The British dead in Iraq should also be able to sell their stories.

Oh wait! Too bad for them. That will teach them a lesson. Don’t fight - surrender - it’s more healthy - and profitable.

Rudyard Kipling is turning over in his grave.

“So it’s Tommy this, and Tommy that, and Tommy go away.
But wave the white flag proudly, and the mags will really pay!”


14 posted on 04/09/2007 10:19:39 AM PDT by oldbill
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To: Do not dub me shapka broham

ping


15 posted on 04/09/2007 10:20:02 AM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: Uncledave
"if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their Finest Hour.'"

Wonder what Churchill would say today.

16 posted on 04/09/2007 10:24:26 AM PDT by oldbill
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To: Uncledave

He asks all the right questions.

Good read.


17 posted on 04/09/2007 10:26:17 AM PDT by Red6 (Come and take it.)
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To: Uncledave
Has Britain gone completely soft?

Britain went completely soft when they allowed a bunch of Islamic psycho killers threaten Britain in its very own streets.

And for anyone who doubts this isn`t true, check it out.....

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/muslimprotest.asp

18 posted on 04/09/2007 10:29:17 AM PDT by Screamname (Gorebull warming, the latest hoax by fat headed liberals who want attention.)
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To: goldstategop
The Western World has been Oprahified. Feelings matter more than considerations of honor and valor. People without dignity are men of straw and their vacuous display of feelings only reveals their inner emptiness of worth.

Very well said. It bears repeating.

19 posted on 04/09/2007 10:29:39 AM PDT by Obadiah (Republicans - the battered wives of Democrats.)
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To: DogBarkTree

Notice also that there were two or three who were not facing the camera. The most published photo has no more than 13 visible people, with one on the left not showing his face at all. I’d say the three for sure are shown as being unhappy, and then I’d speculate that three others would not even face the cameras. There may be as many as six who were unwilling to put on a happy face for the propaganda.


20 posted on 04/09/2007 10:32:03 AM PDT by Cap Huff
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