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Richard Dawkins Writes About Human Responsibility In Light of Darwinian Evolution
EDGE -- World Question Center ^ | Richard Dawkins

Posted on 10/20/2006 8:52:20 PM PDT by SirLinksalot

Let's all stop beating Basil's car

Ask people why they support the death penalty or prolonged incarceration for serious crimes, and the reasons they give will usually involve retribution. There may be passing mention of deterrence or rehabilitation, but the surrounding rhetoric gives the game away. People want to kill a criminal as payback for the horrible things he did. Or they want to give "satisfaction' to the victims of the crime or their relatives. An especially warped and disgusting application of the flawed concept of retribution is Christian crucifixion as "atonement' for "sin'.

Retribution as a moral principle is incompatible with a scientific view of human behaviour. As scientists, we believe that human brains, though they may not work in the same way as man-made computers, are as surely governed by the laws of physics. When a computer malfunctions, we do not punish it. We track down the problem and fix it, usually by replacing a damaged component, either in hardware or software.

Basil Fawlty, British television's hotelier from hell created by the immortal John Cleese, was at the end of his tether when his car broke down and wouldn't start. He gave it fair warning, counted to three, gave it one more chance, and then acted. "Right! I warned you. You've had this coming to you!" He got out of the car, seized a tree branch and set about thrashing the car within an inch of its life. Of course we laugh at his irrationality. Instead of beating the car, we would investigate the problem. Is the carburettor flooded? Are the sparking plugs or distributor points damp? Has it simply run out of gas? Why do we not react in the same way to a defective man: a murderer, say, or a rapist? Why don't we laugh at a judge who punishes a criminal, just as heartily as we laugh at Basil Fawlty? Or at King Xerxes who, in 480 BC, sentenced the rough sea to 300 lashes for wrecking his bridge of ships? Isn't the murderer or the rapist just a machine with a defective component? Or a defective upbringing? Defective education? Defective genes?

Concepts like blame and responsibility are bandied about freely where human wrongdoers are concerned. When a child robs an old lady, should we blame the child himself or his parents? Or his school? Negligent social workers? In a court of law, feeble-mindedness is an accepted defence, as is insanity. Diminished responsibility is argued by the defence lawyer, who may also try to absolve his client of blame by pointing to his unhappy childhood, abuse by his father, or even unpropitious genes (not, so far as I am aware, unpropitious planetary conjunctions, though it wouldn't surprise me).

But doesn't a truly scientific, mechanistic view of the nervous system make nonsense of the very idea of responsibility, whether diminished or not? Any crime, however heinous, is in principle to be blamed on antecedent conditions acting through the accused's physiology, heredity and environment. Don't judicial hearings to decide questions of blame or diminished responsibility make as little sense for a faulty man as for a Fawlty car?

Why is it that we humans find it almost impossible to accept such conclusions? Why do we vent such visceral hatred on child murderers, or on thuggish vandals, when we should simply regard them as faulty units that need fixing or replacing? Presumably because mental constructs like blame and responsibility, indeed evil and good, are built into our brains by millennia of Darwinian evolution. Assigning blame and responsibility is an aspect of the useful fiction of intentional agents that we construct in our brains as a means of short-cutting a truer analysis of what is going on in the world in which we have to live. My dangerous idea is that we shall eventually grow out of all this and even learn to laugh at it, just as we laugh at Basil Fawlty when he beats his car. But I fear it is unlikely that I shall ever reach that level of enlightenment.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: darwinism; dawkins; dawkinssermons; dawkinsthepreacher; evolution; responsibility
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To: .30Carbine; hosepipe
In this wicked flesh of mine I sometimes wish Jesus had not said we may not call anyone an idiot.

More's the pity.... LOLOL!

Thanks so much for the link to Alister McGrath!

201 posted on 10/26/2006 6:14:12 AM PDT by betty boop (Beautiful are the things we see...Much the most beautiful those we do not comprehend. -- N. Steensen)
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To: MEGoody; All
the laws written on our heart imply a Lawgiver.
I would agree. Few evols would.


"..in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them." Rom 2:15

While articulated by many, one popular reading of the argument from conscience is in C.S. Lewis book Mere Christianity. He expounds the argument that universal Laws of right and wrong imply a Lawgiver in the first six chapter of the book. In his book, "The Abolition of Man"[ Abolition of Man Chapter 1, Abolition of Man Chapter 2, Abolition of Man Chapter 3 ], he tackles the subject of how education develops ones sense of morality. While doing so he provides various proofs of the doctrine of objective value, the idea that certain attitudes are really true, and others really false... Lewis calls this objective value the "Tao". The two books go together.

Peter Kreeft has a gift for concise writing while avoiding oversimplification. Dr. Kreeft's summary of the argument from conscience.

If the purpose in life is to "direct mans future evolution" and man is nothing more then an intellectual animal, there is no difference between helping an elderly lady across the street or running her over because she is unfit. Evolution's source of ethics contradicts the objective value that is written on our hearts. Richard Dawkins source of ethics is contradictory to the observed world.

Dawkin's blind watchmaker idea is bankrupt as well, it is also contradictory to the observed world.
The Bankruptcy of Richard Dawkin's Blind Watchmaker Hypothesis
The Religion of the Blind Watchmaker
202 posted on 10/26/2006 6:50:32 AM PDT by FreedomProtector
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To: .30Carbine
It is Richard Dawkins who says there is no such thing as evil, and he who came up with the idea of "memes" - that religious belief (but not the religious belief of atheism) is a 'virus' in the 'programing' of our brains. LOL. In this wicked flesh of mine I sometimes wish Jesus had not said we may not call anyone an idiot. Related Link: Alister McGrath wants the world to know that Richard Dawkins is wrong: good science is not tantamount to atheism.

Candidate for the:
Funniest Post of the Month Award.

203 posted on 10/26/2006 7:08:20 AM PDT by FreedomProtector
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl
"...God is not to be found as an existent bound by our spatiotemporal order."

Nicely put, BB!

And thanks for the ping, A-G!

204 posted on 10/26/2006 9:56:37 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: .30Carbine; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; Quix; editor-surveyor; SoldierDad
It is Richard Dawkins who says there is no such thing as evil, and he who came up with the idea of "memes" - that religious belief (but not the religious belief of atheism) is a 'virus' in the 'programing' of our brains. LOL. In this wicked flesh of mine I sometimes wish Jesus had not said we may not call anyone an idiot. Related Link: Alister McGrath wants the world to know that Richard Dawkins is wrong: good science is not tantamount to atheism.

ROTFLOL!

Maybe I am guilty of succumbing to my wicked flesh, but I believe that the label of 'fool' is permitted for this particular case :)

"The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." Ps 14:1

205 posted on 10/26/2006 12:24:18 PM PDT by FreedomProtector
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To: FreedomProtector; .30Carbine
I believe that the label of 'fool' is permitted for this particular case ... "The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." Ps 14:1

I totally agree -- it's a technical point!

206 posted on 10/26/2006 1:30:35 PM PDT by betty boop (Beautiful are the things we see...Much the most beautiful those we do not comprehend. -- N. Steensen)
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To: betty boop; editor-surveyor; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; cornelis; marron; Quix; FreedomProtector
( Dawkins) ”But doesn't a truly scientific, mechanistic view of the nervous system make nonsense of the very idea of responsibility, whether diminished or not?

(You) “If man were merely a machine, incapable of exercising free, rational decisions (machines do not modify their own programs as a rule), then the whole idea of personal responsibility and legal sanction for wrong-doing is absurd.

Moreover, if, as you say, the scientific mechanistic view of life (therefore of the human brain) is that of an array of unguided chemical reactions and random neuron discharges, then that sort of life-view cannot claim anything as a matter of positive knowledge beyond its physical environment, and must confess it is helpless to believe anything other than what it does believe.

If I have stated anything which is substantially inaccurate or unfair, please enlighten me.

207 posted on 10/26/2006 1:47:00 PM PDT by YHAOS
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To: YHAOS
[ If I have stated anything which is substantially inaccurate or unfair, please enlighten me. ]

Exactly right..
Does/Do thoughts come from the human brain?..
-OR- from the human spirit?..

They cannot originate in both.. Some(people) attack that there even "IS" a human spirit.. and ultimately(I beleive) a Spirit(God) at all.. Evolution as a concept attacks indirectly ultimately "the Spirit(God)"..

208 posted on 10/26/2006 3:22:30 PM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole.)
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To: FreedomProtector
LOLOL! Thanks for the ping!
209 posted on 10/26/2006 11:48:36 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: YHAOS
Thank you so much for your post!

...then that sort of life-view cannot claim anything as a matter of positive knowledge beyond its physical environment...

Indeed. It draws a very narrow, fabricated boundary.

210 posted on 10/26/2006 11:52:53 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: FreedomProtector; betty boop

Thank you both! What a blessing our fellowship! (:


211 posted on 10/27/2006 2:02:14 AM PDT by .30Carbine
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To: Lakeshark
Yes, Dawkins is just openly admitting to the inevitable conclusion of belief in godless evolution that other godless evolutionists still pretend is not the inevitable conclusion to be drawn from their own belief in godless evolution.

The godless evolutionists secretly hail Dawkin's proclamations, yet they will just continue to pretend that their own coronation of godless evolution does not lead where Dawkins admits it leads.

Yet, many of us are glad to see that there is finally one somewhat honest evolutionist, that is, he is honest enough to stop pretending that this is not where his godless evolution obviously leads and has always led.

212 posted on 10/27/2006 2:27:56 AM PDT by OriginalIntent (Undo the ACLU revision of the Constitution. If you agree with the ACLU revisions, you are a liberal)
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To: YHAOS; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; .30Carbine; FreedomProtector
...if...the scientific mechanistic view of life (therefore of the human brain) is that of an array of unguided chemical reactions and random neuron discharges, then that sort of life-view cannot claim anything as a matter of positive knowledge beyond its physical environment, and must confess it is helpless to believe anything other than what it does believe.

Your statement strikes me as spot-on, YHAOS. I question whether such a life-view is even capable of reasoning about its physical environment. For if everything is just random neuron discharges and unguided chemical reactions, how do logic and reason enter into the picture? How could logic and reason be the products of a long chain of antecedent accidents? Even if we could say they were (which I very strongly doubt we can), according to what principle could unguided chemistry and random neural activity access them?

Dawkins is undermining the very foundation of science itself by making the claims he does. His is an exercise in absurdity.

Thank you so much YHAOS for your excellent essay/post!

213 posted on 10/27/2006 6:35:10 AM PDT by betty boop (Beautiful are the things we see...Much the most beautiful those we do not comprehend. -- N. Steensen)
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To: betty boop

If the brain of Dawkins was programmed by a "blind watchmaker" [title of a book by Dawkins] why should he trust it?


214 posted on 10/27/2006 6:59:42 AM PDT by FreedomProtector
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To: FreedomProtector; Alamo-Girl; YHAOS; hosepipe; .30Carbine
If the brain of Dawkins was programmed by a "blind watchmaker" [title of a book by Dawkins] why should he trust it?

Exactly, FreedomProtector! More to the point, why should we trust it?

As Eric Voegelin observed, a universe that contains intelligent beings cannot have a less-than-intelligent (e.g., "blind") cause.

Thanks so much for writing!

215 posted on 10/27/2006 8:10:33 AM PDT by betty boop (Beautiful are the things we see...Much the most beautiful those we do not comprehend. -- N. Steensen)
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To: betty boop

So very true. Thank you for your insights!


216 posted on 10/27/2006 9:02:09 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop; .30Carbine; Alamo-Girl; YHAOS; hosepipe; Quix; editor-surveyor; SoldierDad
More to the point, why should we trust it?

The brain of Dawkins may have been programmed by chance [hence the label which I believe is permitted for this particular 'technical' case], but my brain certainly was not.
217 posted on 10/27/2006 10:51:46 AM PDT by FreedomProtector
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To: FreedomProtector
I'd hazard to say that a case could be made that Dawkins' brain may not have been programmed completely during formation.
218 posted on 10/27/2006 11:18:43 AM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Father of a 10th Mountain Division 2nd BCT Soldier fighting in Mahmudiyah)
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To: SoldierDad
I'd hazard to say that a case could be made that Dawkins' brain may not have been programmed completely during formation.

Maybe the random incomplete programming during formation is circumstantial evidence that his ancestor by common descent was a frog or a rodent.
219 posted on 10/27/2006 11:50:22 AM PDT by FreedomProtector
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To: FreedomProtector
Maybe the random incomplete programming during formation is circumstantial evidence that his ancestor by common descent was a frog or a rodent.

Or, they just imbibed copious amounts of alcohol or drugs.

220 posted on 10/27/2006 11:52:10 AM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Father of a 10th Mountain Division 2nd BCT Soldier fighting in Mahmudiyah)
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