Posted on 08/21/2006 5:51:49 PM PDT by Bob J
In earlier news it was reported that a Baptist Sunday school teacher of 54 years was let go from her position because "My belief is that the qualifications for both men and women teaching spiritual matters in a church setting end at the church door, period," the Pastor was quoted as saying.
Apparently in a letter sent to the teacher earlier in the month they qouted from First Timothy Two, 11-14 "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent."
This news was posted on FR here and here.
It's an interesting topic considering the current discussions regarding Sharia law and the treatment of women in Islam. Some FReepers were shocked and others appeared to support the policy based on scripture interpretation.
What is your opinion?
That's a misuse of the term. Next thing you know you're kid is going to be asking you "Daddy, can I go to church with little Billy ~ he's a snakehandler" and you'll think the kid is safe since this is just a bunch of backwoods hayseeds.
I'll bet a man wrote the Genesis story.
The question is do we think women should be allowed to teach men isn't it? Not whose Church it is?
Bishop is a church office that has authority in "ruling" (administrating) the functions of a church.
Pastor refers to shepherding (teaching, counseling, spiritually leading)
Elder refers also to leadership, spiritually, referring to example setting and teaching.
A Bishop is to be "apt to teach" (1 Tim 3), so a bishop is to be a pastor and elder. But one may be an elder and a teacher in the church without being the bishop. There could be multiple pastors or elders in one local assembly.
That brings us back to the "living breathing document" argument. Some people believe that portions of Jesus's teachings can be ignored because they don't fit our current culture. I do not believe the Bible gives us the authority to pick and choose what fits our culture. Rev 22: 18-19.
It might be ok but Im not at all sure that women should be mothers
I don't think you understand the distinction between testimony--like a witness in a court--and pastoral leadership in the church, they are two different things. The Church, unlike Islam or other religions has never said women were inferior or cannot testify in court, or tell others of what God has done for them. The leadership in the institution of the Church though is a different matter. It may seem backward to you, but for Christians who accept the inspiration of the Bible...all of it, we must deal with a verse such as this:
"11Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." (I Tim. 2:11-14)
Logically, unless a Christian wants to say he knows better than St. Paul, we must bow to what the scripture says here.
Immediately after this Paul gives the qualifications for church leaders:
"The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. 2Therefore an overseer[a] must be above reproach, the husband of one wife,[b] sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, 5for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil." (I Tim. 3:1-7)
Putting these two passages together (along with various other specific instructions in the New Testament) you cannot help but conclude that Church leadership is reserved for men, period. Most who disagree just ignore these verses--without being honest in saying they think they know better (and are not as backward) as the Apostle Paul.
The basis of the Church life is Christ...and Christ said those who love Him obey Him. We know what He wants us to do in the bible. Selective obedience to the Bible (as the New Testament interprets it) is not obedience at all, and rebelliong against Christ, and hence is not loving of Him.
If Scripture isn't to be taken literally, then how is it supposed to be taken, allegorically? If its supposed to be allegorically interpreted, then nobody, and I mean nobody can objectively determine what it means. It could mean one thing for you, and one thing for me, and something completely different for everybody else. That's nothing but pure existentialism.
I don't buy it. I'd guess its nothing more than deplorable hermeneutic. And if they're wrong about that doctrine, then I'd wager that they'd be wrong about other issues to, perhaps even important ones, e.g., what it takes to be saved.
Some Baptists allow divorce and remarriage, some don't. I know that some of them won't allow a divorced man to be a Pastor or a Deacon.
Only the Shia have saints ~ the Sunni don't have saints. The Shia also have a religious hierarchy. The Sunni have no religious hierarchy (which is one of the reasons you rarely hear of a major Sunni religious leader saying anything at all).
Nonsense. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her This only says he was with her when she ate. Period.
You don't spend much time in the bible, do ya???
All kidding aside...I concur. I truly found the Sisters inspirational. I was taught by Sisters of Mercy...their order was founded in Ireland and they came to the US (western Pennsylvania) to open parochial schools and provide health care for the immigrant community. They built schools; orphanages; hospitals; and even a college. The good works and profound impact they had on their communities is simply astounding. That is why I have a hard time understanding women not being able to teach their faith to others.
I'll bet God told him what to write. What's your point?
I can't respond to your post because I don't know what this one Baptist Church teaches in relation to a woman must cover her head.
God is God and St. Paul is St. Paul. The Bible is a record of statements made or written at different times for various purposes. It is NOT an Earthly manifestation of a pure document maintained in Heaven. Christians are not Moslems and shouldn't make Islamic arguments.
First of all, let me state that by no means am I an expert.
All scripture is not meant to be taken literally. That doesn't mean that the scripture is NOT true and literal. The Bible is best understood if one has a lot of historical information and understands context. On a smaller scale, for instance, one is far better able to undertand the intricacies of the NT if one knows the OT. The reason it is good to know stuff is because you won't get sucked into false doctrines as many have been. There are as many false Christian doctrines out there as total pagan ones (for instance, oneness pentecostalism, health and wealth gospel, etc.).
I don't spend any time fretting over a Pauline restriction meant for the early Church.
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