Light up or leave

NON-SMOKERS are being banned from drinking in outdoor smoking areas in pubs and clubs under draconian council rules.

Some councils are forcing licensed venues to hire bouncers to enforce the bans, costing tens of thousands of dollars a year, while preventing non-smokers from using outdoor areas.

It has raised concerns about discrimination against non-smokers and suggestions that councils are going beyond the State Government's legislation and imposing their own rules.

The Daily Telegraph has learned that at least two councils – Fairfield and North Sydney – have already employed the tactic when approving development applications from premises wishing to comply with the NSW laws.

The outdoor spaces are being built to comply with the total indoor smoking ban at licensed premises that comes in to effect next July.

But those laws do not exclude non-smokers nor ban drinking in those areas.

While many councils are imposing special conditions, by far the harshest is Fairfield Council.

The council's determination notice regarding Mount Pritchard club Mounties' development application for a 40-person terrace says: "The outdoor terrace area shall be used for the exclusive purpose of patrons smoking. A security guard shall conduct regular patrols within the terrace area at all times to ensure that the terrace is for smoking purposes only."

The council document goes on to say, "there shall be no bar service or consumption of food within the terrace".

Mounties CEO Greg Pickering said the restrictions raised questions of discrimination.

"Could you imagine being told you must be a smoker to use a particular area of a club?" he said.

Fairfield Council has imposed the same or similar conditions on other clubs, including Cabra-Vale Ex-Servicemen's Club, St Johns Park Bowling Club and Canley Heights RSL.

Australian Hotels Association president John Thorpe has said publicans, including himself, were facing enormous difficulties getting DAs through.

Another council placing strict conditions on outdoor areas is North Sydney.

Local club Norths has had a terrace designed by acoustic engineers who specified 3m high walls and special sound proofing materials – but that is not enough.

"The council did not even look at the acoustic report showing the terrace noise would be even lower than the council's own requirements," Norths CEO Hans Sarlemyn said.

The club has been told the terrace will have to close at 9pm on weekdays and 10pm Saturdays and Sundays.

I think it's time for smokers to force the local governments to either make allowances for tax paying smokers or ban cigarettes COMPLETELY by making it illegal!

But they won't do that!

These people would throw a fit if smoking was made illegal and all that tax money disappeared.

41 posted on 08/14/2006 7:31:59 AM PDT by Bigh4u2 (Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)

Same here. Of course, in Maine, we have about a one-month window of opportunity before it gets too cold ;-)

Oh boy. Ain't that the truth!

42 posted on 08/14/2006 7:32:22 AM PDT by SheLion ("If you're legal, you can fly with the Eagle!" - Michael Anthony)

These people would throw a fit if smoking was made illegal and all that tax money disappeared.

That's why most people are learning the truth! It's not about health reasons at all. But the MONEY!!!!

43 posted on 08/14/2006 7:33:46 AM PDT by SheLion ("If you're legal, you can fly with the Eagle!" - Michael Anthony)

Well, that's why most of us have good health insurance.

As do I. Still, it's a criminal offense that they tax us for something we aren't going to benefit from. My taxes would be a third less if I could opt out of social security, and I would if I had the option.

44 posted on 08/14/2006 7:34:38 AM PDT by JamesP81 ("Never let your schooling interfere with your education" --Mark Twain)

LOL! This is beautiful!

Every, "Smoking Area," sign I see, I write in pencil:

NO
ANTI-SMOKERS
ALLOWED
(non-smokers are okay)

Looks like someone else caught on.

45 posted on 08/14/2006 7:39:02 AM PDT by RandallFlagg (Roll your own cigarettes! You'll save $$$ and smoke less!(Magnetic bumper stickers-click my name)

And If an owner puts a roof on that patio, it's considered an 'enclosure' and part of the indoors. Hence. NO SMOKING!

46 posted on 08/14/2006 7:39:09 AM PDT by Bigh4u2 (Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)

When I get sick, my insurance pays for me. No one else. Just me.

If you are getting your insurance through your employer, they are generally footing most of the bill.

47 posted on 08/14/2006 7:40:20 AM PDT by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)

48 posted on 08/14/2006 7:57:21 AM PDT by SheLion ("If you're legal, you can fly with the Eagle!" - Michael Anthony)

And If an owner puts a roof on that patio, it's considered an 'enclosure' and part of the indoors. Hence. NO SMOKING!

OOps...there IS a roof over it. hehe!

49 posted on 08/14/2006 7:58:17 AM PDT by SheLion ("If you're legal, you can fly with the Eagle!" - Michael Anthony)

t looks like the smoking nazis can not tolerate it that any non smoker might actually choose to go outside to visit with their smoking friend.

I'm sorry I think I misspoke. I meant to say it is the anti smoking Nazis that are trying to prevent nonsmokers from even socializing with a smoker while he /she has a smoke.

Let them try to tell me I can't "second hand smoke" with my friends.

50 posted on 08/14/2006 8:02:16 AM PDT by joshhiggins (O you who believe! do not take the MUSLIMS for friends; ...surely Allah does not guide the unjust...)

There is a sports bar here in New York that I've played at with the band and it has a patio. The owner put a kerosine heater on the table, for smokers in the winter, and the town told him that he couldn't have a heater without a permit because the patio was considered an 'enclosure' and also said that there would be no smoking allowed 'inside'.

No doors. No windows. Just a roof with a table.

51 posted on 08/14/2006 8:07:54 AM PDT by Bigh4u2 (Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)

"Let them try to tell me I can't "second hand smoke" with my friends."

There ya go. If the 'smoking police' ask, just tell them you are a 'second hand' smoker!

:)

52 posted on 08/14/2006 8:09:35 AM PDT by Bigh4u2 (Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)

Let them try to tell me I can't "second hand smoke" with my friends.

Yep. There you go!

I know I have non-smoking friends and they could care less about the rest of us smoking. If it bothered them, they wouldn't hang out with us.

53 posted on 08/14/2006 8:12:28 AM PDT by SheLion ("If you're legal, you can fly with the Eagle!" - Michael Anthony)

No doors. No windows. Just a roof with a table.

That's really sick and going just a bit too far.

54 posted on 08/14/2006 8:13:32 AM PDT by SheLion ("If you're legal, you can fly with the Eagle!" - Michael Anthony)

See. The problem was, it was attached to the building, and according to the 'smoking police' part of the restaurant.

55 posted on 08/14/2006 8:19:18 AM PDT by Bigh4u2 (Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)

See. The problem was, it was attached to the building, and according to the 'smoking police' part of the restaurant.

Just more harassment from the NYC Health Police, IMHO.

56 posted on 08/14/2006 8:22:10 AM PDT by SheLion ("If you're legal, you can fly with the Eagle!" - Michael Anthony)

It was actually in Rochester,NY. Upstate, but the same mentality since Rochester is a 'democrat' city.

That's why I don't live there anymore.

57 posted on 08/14/2006 8:33:58 AM PDT by Bigh4u2 (Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)

Smokers are not banned though, just smoking inside.

In this case, non-smokers aren't banned, just non-smoking outside.

58 posted on 08/14/2006 8:50:10 AM PDT by BlueMondaySkipper (The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it. - George Orwell)

In this case, non-smokers aren't banned, just non-smoking outside.

It sounds like a case where a business complies with a smoking ban by building a terrace for them to smoke on outside. Smokers and non-smokers alike use it so council decides the business has expanded and wants to tax the additional square footage. Business says it is just a smoking deck but council disagrees so business goes overboard to embarrass the council. If we knew the whole story...that is probably about what we would find.

59 posted on 08/14/2006 9:00:22 AM PDT by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)

"Congratulations to those councils it's about time! The smoker has been discriminated against for years now the shoe is on the other foot."

Amen, maybe they'll learn the nanny state just starts with the smokers but eventually they'll be sticking their nose into EVERYONES business. That's why we have to make a stand now.

60 posted on 08/14/2006 3:20:13 PM PDT by MadLibDisease (Adults like to make their own choices, the socially stunted and socially retarded want a nanny state)

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