Posted on 07/24/2006 2:50:28 AM PDT by Republicain
Bat Yeor is the most informed contemporary scholar of the unique Islamic institution of dhimmitude, the repressive and humiliating apartheid system imposed upon those non-Muslims (i.e., dhimmis) subjugated by Jihad. Sir Jadunath Sarkar, the pre-eminent historian of Mughal India, wrote the following in 1920 regarding the impact of centuries of Jihad and dhimmitude on the indigenous Hindus of the Indian subcontinent:
The conversion of the entire population to Islam and the extinction of every form of dissent is the ideal of the Muslim State. If any infidel is suffered to exist in the community, it is as a necessary evil, and for a transitional period only. Political and social disabilities must be imposed on him, and bribes offered to him from the public funds, to hasten the day of his spiritual enlightenment and the addition of his name to the roll of true believers. A non-Muslim therefore cannot be a citizen of the State; he is a member of a depressed class; his status is a modified form of slavery. He lives under a contract (zimma, or dhimma) with the State: for the life and property grudgingly spared to him by the commander of the faithful he must undergo political and social disabilities, and pay a commutation money. In short, his continued existence in the State after the conquest of his country by the Muslims is conditional upon his person and property made subservient to the cause of Islam.
(Excerpt) Read more at brusselsjournal.com ...
You are a propogandist.
And as for you reply (which was a tad rude, but people have varying rudeness levels), it isn't very convincing. So the Turks aren't assimilating in Germany. So? Are Germans the epitomy of what is or isn't European? (two rhetorical questions). There are people in east France who still use German (i.e. they haven't assimilated into French culture).
if you were referring to honor killings, though, you have point. However, Turks are supposed to be--and by most media accounts they are--very liberal and secular.
Most Turks are as Muslim as most West Europeans are Christian--not very. And also, Turkey is at least if not more European than Russia, and while many Europeans will cut out Russia from Europe, most Americans won't, and judging from your username, you seem to be American.
Are you considering that the natural geographical issues are what draw the borders of civilisations ? This is absurd. Especially in Europe with his more than 3 thousand years old history. Look at a map of Europe an you will see that most of the borders are not geographical but historical, political and religious. The actual border between Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina, for instance, marks exactly the border between the Christian world (croatia) and the Ottoman Empire in the 17th century. Less than 10% of Turkey is on the geographical Europe. Is it enough to say that Turkey is a European country ? Of course not ! Things are far more complicated.
We have. The West as a whole took the wide road to ruin. For the most part, there is not the population to turn back now, and the biggest hope is that Western civilization will survive in some sort of hiding place until the time is right again. Much like the Irish monks preserved a remnant, hopefully somewhere one will be preserved.
Because Europe and probably North America will soon pass into a dark age.
Granted, if a Muslim (even one that is only Muslim de jure) country tried to become the fifty-first state of the United States, all Americans should oppose that, and so it is more than reasonable that Europeans would respond the same way. But this isn't about membership into the EU, but rather is Turkey part of Europe. Yes it is, and so is Albania and Bosnia. Cuba is a part of North America although it is a dictatorship that would probably nuke the United States if it had the weapons and there was no threat of retaliation.
P.S. You obviously would probably have a lot of knowledge about Europe, but it is also improbable that the news and media reaching the United States is so far off as you seem to purport.
P.P.S. There are a lot of freepers who are against the breakup of the former Yugoslavia. They--being Europeans--would have been in support of a nation not divided by religion.
An Orson Scott Card column from a few months ago hit it square on the head. To paraphrase: any society that compels its members to follow a particular religion (on pain of death, imprisionment, exile, or other legal penalty) cannot claim to have any true believers in the religion, for without free exercise, who can say that they follow the path out of faith rather than simple self-interest?
1) In east of France people don't still use german but a germanic language (the Francique) that is older than modern german (I live in that part of France, but unfortunately I don't speak this local language).
2) He's talking about germany because the turkish migrants are mainly in Germany and Germany has a long relationship with Turkey (Ottoman's empire was an ally of Germany and austro-hungary during WWI).
3)Yes, by certain point of view, Turkey is close to Europe, but Ukrainia and Russia are far more closest. But we don't want Russia in EU too.
4) If EU is just a free market and free trade zone, than of course Turkey, Russia, Ukraine, even Morocco, Lybia, Israel, Palestine or iran can be one day member of EU. But EU is not only a free trade zone. It's more than that.
I'm myself absolutely against dividing nations by religion, or language or, race or whatever. That's not at all what I try to say when I say that Turkey is not part of the European civilisation. The question is : what is Europe and what is a European country. Only history can tell. And history tells "Turkey is not Europe".
P.S. is being a jerk necessary. The poster of this article was more polite than either you or wtc911 (this was why you were pinged), and he's actually European. Why are you, who are probably American, getting so angry over Turkey's placement in the world when you aren't even European?
The 0.
It seems appropriate somehow.
There's a kind of obsession about Irak here. It's seems that for a lot of Freepers the world is divided in two between the countries who supported the US invasion of Irak and the others... Without nuances. It's really a binary vision of the world. In short, if you're not a vassal of the USA, you're necessarily an ennemy. Ridiculous !
As far as I know the "zero" is an Indian invention, transmitted to Western Europe by Arabs... But, no matters, it's one of the most important human invention of all times. In short, a 0 is far to be nothing. ;-)
Actually, not even nothing - they got the 0 from India. Another thing they stole before they decided that even mathematics was un-Islamic.
The only "Europeanness" of Turkey is the result of the fact that it was conquered later than most other Islamic countries. Prior to that, you could make a point that it shared much of European cultural assumptions.
However, it ceased to do that several hundred years ago and has been an adversary of the West ever since, except when its dysfunctional Islamic culture makes it too weak even to be an enemy. And as usual, every time some attempts are made to modernize the country, at least structurally, the orthodox Islamics rise up and try to drag it right back to the 7th century.
So they didn't give us nothing; they brought us nothing, but gave us death and destruction!
Lovely bunch.
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