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Army Told Not to Use Israeli Bullets in Iraq (06-24-2004)
My way news ^ | 06-24-2004 | Anon

Posted on 04/18/2006 7:10:51 AM PDT by white trash redneck

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Israeli-made bullets bought by the U.S. Army to plug a shortfall should be used for training only, not to fight Muslim guerrillas in Iraq and Afghanistan, U.S. lawmakers told Army generals on Thursday.

Since the Army has other stockpiled ammunition, "by no means, under any circumstances should a round (from Israel) be utilized," said Rep. Neil Abercrombie of Hawaii, the top Democrat on a House of Representatives Armed Services subcommittee with jurisdiction over land forces.

The Army contracted with Israel Military Industries Ltd. in December for $70 million in small-caliber ammunition.

The Israeli firm was one of only two worldwide that could meet U.S. technical specifications and delivery needs, said Brig. Gen. Paul Izzo, the Army's program executive officer for ammunition. The other was East Alton, Illinois-based Winchester Ammunition, which also received a $70 million contract.

Although the Army should not have to worry about "political correctness," Abercrombie was making a valid point about the propaganda pitfalls of using Israeli rounds in the U.S.-declared war on terror, said Rep. Curt Weldon, the Pennsylvania Republican who chairs the subcommittee on tactical air and land forces.

"There's a sensitivity that I think all of us recognize," Weldon told the Army witnesses, including Maj. Gen. Buford Blount, who led the U.S. Third Infantry Division that captured Baghdad in April 2003.

Blount, now the Army's assistant deputy chief of staff, said the Army had sufficient small caliber ammunition -- 5.56mm, 7.62mm and .50 caliber -- to conduct current operations in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere.

But taken together with training needs, the United States had strained its production facilities, he testified.

"To fight a major combat operation in another theater will require the Army to impose restrictions on training expenditures and to focus current inventory and new production on combat operations," Blount said.

As a result, he said the Army hoped to stretch U.S. supplies to supplement the capacity of the government-owned Lake City plant in Independence, Missouri, that currently makes more than 90 percent of U.S. small caliber ammunition.

The Lake City factory, operated by Alliant Techsystems Inc., has nearly quadrupled its production in the past four years. This year, it will produce more than 1.2 billion rounds, Karen Davies, president of the ATK arm that runs it, told the panel. Lake City provided more than 2 billion rounds a year during World War II and Vietnam, she said.

The Army's needs will grow to about 1.5 billion to 1.7 billion rounds a year in coming years, Blount said.

"In the near-term, balancing training requirements with current operational needs is a manageable risk-mitigation strategy," he said.

The Army does not want to repeat its history of building capacity during wartime "only to dismantle it in peacetime," Blount added.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: baconbullets; banglist; bravosierra; israel; mideast; pc; twoyearoldrecycle
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To: tonycavanagh

"...winning the hearts and minds of the local population,..."

You can't possibly be serious?

For every single faction of muslim/"iraqi" participants, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is in effect wrt the US. None of them are destined for or intend to have an eye-to-eye realtionship with the US after the shouting is over.....they will all revert to their homoestatic nature.


41 posted on 04/18/2006 7:44:56 AM PDT by Vn_survivor_67-68
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To: Piranha
re :You British can try all you want, whether or not as collaborators with the Arab world, but you simply cannot wish away that sh***y little country, Israel.

I would have replied to you, explaining about COIN strategy as I have to others but from your rant I guess it would go right over your little head.

I will change my mind on your abject stupidity if you can point out where I wished away Israel

42 posted on 04/18/2006 7:46:00 AM PDT by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: muawiyah

We could export the excess lard under the guise of a Ted Kennedy visit.


43 posted on 04/18/2006 7:46:09 AM PDT by thoughtomator (That new ring around Uranus is courtesy of the IRS)
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To: white trash redneck

"There's a sensitivity that I think all of us recognize,"

Yeah. Human bodies are very "sensitive" to bullets - no matter where they were made.


44 posted on 04/18/2006 7:47:04 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: Thermalseeker; muawiyah

Bleh, of course I wasn't going to be the first with that joke, now was I?


45 posted on 04/18/2006 7:47:09 AM PDT by thoughtomator (That new ring around Uranus is courtesy of the IRS)
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To: white trash redneck

"I think they ought to equip our troops with Israeli manufactured ammo DIPPED IN PIG FAT."

Works for me.


46 posted on 04/18/2006 7:48:13 AM PDT by roaddog727 (eludium PU36 explosive space modulator)
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To: Vn_survivor_67-68
re :You can't possibly be serious?

Then, what are we doing out there, and from all reports from troops on the ground in both the British and American sectors it is working.

You were in Vietnam, you cant tell me that when the local population start coming forward with information on the bad guys thats not winning their hearts and minds.

47 posted on 04/18/2006 7:49:28 AM PDT by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: white trash redneck

It's funny that just as it was with Vietnam, we're kicking the shiite out of them militarily, but we're actually losing the war in terms of public opinion. Amazing.


48 posted on 04/18/2006 7:50:01 AM PDT by Fruitbat
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To: white trash redneck

Since the Army has other stockpiled ammunition, "by no means, under any circumstances should a round (from Israel) be utilized,"




We want to kill them, but not insult them? WTF has happened to the Army that I left only 4 years ago???? This is what happens when it gets political in the military. Can they still bury the terrorists with a pig carcass?


49 posted on 04/18/2006 7:50:57 AM PDT by trubluolyguy (If I wanted to live in Mexico, I'd FRIGGING MOVE THERE!)
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To: white trash redneck
They should use Israeli bullets with a big Star of David inscribed on the tip, and Christian crosses around the circumference.

Apparently there is no end of pandering to Islamic extremists and predictably, its being orchestrated by the Dems.
50 posted on 04/18/2006 7:51:21 AM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: tonycavanagh

Possible this would enrage the local resistance, cartoons do, but the position would be a lot more credible if the issue has been raised by the military rather than two anti-war congressmen.


51 posted on 04/18/2006 7:52:17 AM PDT by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn’t do!)
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To: white trash redneck
Dear Mrs. Jones,

I am writing to express my condolences to you and your children over the loss of your husband and their father. You may know that Sgt. Jones lost his life while in a firefight with Muslim terrorists in Baghdad, and although your loss is great, please know that your husband would have lived if it were not for the supply depot sending him the wrong bullets to use to protect himself. You see, Mrs. Jones, he was ordered not to use Israeli manufactured ammunition in his weapon as that may inflame the Arab people. Imagine, an Arab being killed by a Jewish made bullet...why that would inflame the whole Middle East, and cause great problems for our State Department.

The Senate and House Armed Forces Committee want you to know your husband's sacrifice to its' politically correct rulings, in no way denigrates his service to his country. When you are finished with his burial, please be sure and return all of his body armor as another soldier may be able to use in at a future engagement.

Sincerely Yours,
The Congress of the United States
52 posted on 04/18/2006 7:52:38 AM PDT by geezerwheezer (get up boys, we're burnin' daylight!!!)
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To: tonycavanagh

There was some sort of dust-up with muslims and redcoats in India a long time ago, wasn't there, over paper cartridges (that you had to bite) lubricated with pork fat, so that native troops rebelled?
You may have a point.


53 posted on 04/18/2006 7:55:21 AM PDT by tumblindice (`I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it.'.... Groucho)
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To: white trash redneck

Stamp a Star of David on every bullet used to take out a Muslim fanatic.


54 posted on 04/18/2006 7:55:25 AM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
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To: white trash redneck

Abercrombie, a real whacko BTW, should know that the Middle East conspiracy theorist will ASSUME that we are using Israeli ammo whether or not we actually do. We get no credit for restraint.

Once the 'training ammo' gets distributed, nobody is going to look closely when they are loading their magazines. Just plain stupid.


55 posted on 04/18/2006 7:56:06 AM PDT by Tallguy (When it's a bet between reality and delusion, bet on reality -- Mark Steyn)
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To: tonycavanagh

I'm sorry you chose to overlook my point and change the subject.

the old as islam adage "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is in effect. When its over, they will again be just another neighborhood of arab muslims, and proceed as such.

There is no "winning the hearts and minds".....they are simply being pragmatic right now.


56 posted on 04/18/2006 7:59:47 AM PDT by Vn_survivor_67-68
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To: white trash redneck

Leave it to a Dim and a RINO to get their drawers in a knot about making sure that we don't use any Israeli-made anything in combat with terrorists! Just when you think it can't get more ridiculous........Wouldn't want to "offend" "precious muslim sensitivities" (GAG!) by using anything that might have been made by Israel! It might make the terrorists get real mad at us! FEH!


57 posted on 04/18/2006 8:00:40 AM PDT by Convert from ECUSA (Illegals - taking the rights Americans don't have - tell them No Tu Puede)
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To: white trash redneck

These "elected" representatives need to be retired and replaced by servicemen who have had to face death to protect the sorry butts of the Abercrummys of the country.


58 posted on 04/18/2006 8:02:05 AM PDT by hgro
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To: tonycavanagh

You are wishing away Israel by suggesting that it is better that US (and British) soldiers die from lack of inadequate ammunition than that they shoot Muslims with bullets manufactured in the Jewish state.

I accept that this is the Eurabian way, but that is not how we view the world from the vantage point of the United States.


59 posted on 04/18/2006 8:02:51 AM PDT by Piranha
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To: hgro

we should coat our small arms projectiles with the fat of abercrombie and nadler!


60 posted on 04/18/2006 8:04:06 AM PDT by Vn_survivor_67-68
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