Posted on 04/14/2006 5:58:16 AM PDT by timsbella
A provocative $4-million documentary by Toronto filmmaker Simcha Jacobovici claims to have found archeological evidence verifying the story of the biblical Exodus from Egypt, 3,500 years ago.
Religious Jews consider the biblical account incontrovertible — the foundation story of the creation of the nation of Israel. Indeed, they celebrated the Exodus Wednesday night and last night with the annual Passover recitation of the Haggadah.
But among scholars, the question of if and when Moses led an estimated two million Israelite slaves out of pharaonic Egypt, miraculously crossed the Red Sea ahead of the pursuing Egyptian army and received the Ten Commandments from God on Mount Sinai, has long been a source of contention.
Absent definitive proof, archeologists have argued variously that the biblical account is simply a nice fable or that it may have happened, but not on the scale suggested by the Book of Exodus. Nor is there any consensus about when it might have occurred.
Now, in Exodus Decoded, Mr. Jacobovici says he has found almost a dozen overlooked relics that confirm the biblical story.
(Excerpt) Read more at theglobeandmail.com ...
Well that hasn't changed then. Don't they still deny being whipped by Israel.
You failed to rebutt the contents of my post.
There were about 603,000 males between the ages of 20 and 60. Count older and younger males, and then double the figure, and 2 million is extremely plausible, even without counting the Egyptians-masquerading-as-Jews to get out of Egypt (and they were NOT counted, according to the Bible).
Some facts for you to consider: The Hebrew Bible indicates that G-d appeared in front of the entire nation of Israel at Mt. Sinai. No other religion in the entire history of mankind ever made that claim (and, BTW, the Bible specifically indicates that no other religion ever will make that claim). It also mentions, dozens of times, the Exodus which "you" (meaning the Jewish people) witnessed. The Bible also very forcefully mentions that not one single letter may be added or subtracted from its text.
In order for the Exodus to be a "colossal revisionist boast" you would have had to create events in the public record of the Jewish people that didn't occur - in the face of the entire nation having witnessed the event. It would be like saying that George Washington never existed. You literally cannot make that up - it would amount to a vast conspiracy, the likes of which has never been heard of before in history. Not just the 2 million, but also their descendants for many generations would have had to have said nothing when officials and religious leaders lied in public. If you heard something totally fantastic about what happened to your nation several decades before, wouldn't you say "Hey, my father and grandfather never told me about that"? If it was several centuries later, a similar question would arise for those who were adults upon the introduction of the new information - "how come we never heard this before?" If it was based on a new book of the Bible that was found, wouldn't the person who found it be discussed/memorialized somewhere in Jewish literature?
To deny outright that which you don't believe, without analyzing the logic or the facts presented by those who do believe that thing is, itself, a highly illogical and unreasoning stance.
How do you explain that the first born of the Israelites cattle didn't die, but that those of the Egyptians did? Surely the Israelites didn't prepare food for their cattle.
The "flickers" industry in New York kept the Jews out. So they moved to Hollywood and created the film industry.
#107 & #108 bump[s]
.....To deny outright that which you don't believe, without analyzing the logic or the facts presented by those who do believe that thing is, itself, a highly illogical and unreasoning stance.....
The boast was that 2 million Jews exited Egypt. There is very little evidence for any of the events of the Exodus and none for 2 million people. That is nearly half the Jewish population today. To promote the idea of 2 million people wandering around on Sainai is ludicrous.
Fascinating. Thanks for the images!
First of all, there are roughly 14-15 million Jews today, so 2 million is not even close to "nearly half." It would be nice if you had your facts straight.
Second, and far more importantly, you have utterly ignored how it would be possible to fabricate such a claim when the document claiming it specifically states that 2 million people - literally the entire nation, men, women and children - witnessed the miracles of the Exodus and the appearance of G-d and the other events at Mt. Sinai. Not one person as is the case with Islam, not a few people as with Christianity and most other religions, but 2 million people. How can any person or group of people make that claim out of whole cloth decades or even centuries later, when such a series of momentous events would have been ingrained into the collective psyche of the people (as is the case), and the silence of their absence in the collective psyche of the people (which you claim to be the case) would be utterly deafening? Anyone making such a claim for the first time would have been either laughed at and ignored, or stoned as a heretic.
Another factor which you ignore is that the Bible commands Jews to remember the Exodus, and to instruct their children about it so that it will never be forgotten - not once or twice, but hundreds of times. Jews are commanded to celebrate the Exodus/Passover every single year, and were commanded to do so from the very beginning. It is utterly impossible to start something like that up from nothing (especially when the claim is that the entire people witnessed it), yet claim that the basis for such a celebration (the Bible) commanded everyone to remember such an event and transmit it to their kids, and to celebrate it each year from the first year after its occurance. Logically speaking, either the Exodus happened as described in the Bible, or 2 million people and their descendants have maintained a vast conspiracy of incomprehensible dimensions for over 3 millenia. I vote with the former - conspiracies are notoriously hard to keep together, and the difficulty of doing so rises exponentially as the number of people privy to the secret rises. And in this particular case, a sincere belief in Judaism requires lots of personal sacrifice - so it is most certainly NOT in the interest of the average person (as opposed to the elites who would benefit from such a hypothetical conspiracy) to maintain the secret. This applies as much to the generation that was present at Mt. Sinai as it does to their children, grandchildren, etc. Nope, there must be something to the claim - dare I call it The Truth?
Your point of view on this makes NO sense, and is utterly contrary to human nature. With regard to there being no physical evidence, the fact is that as time goes forward, more and more of the Bible has been proven to be literally true. An open mind admits to itself and to others that it is not the fount of all knowledge, and admits facts contrary to its preconceived notions to be fairly evaluated. I respectfully suggest that you do some re-evaluation.
See #113.
You are boasting again..... I was speaking of the Jewish population of Israel. There are only 5+ million approximately.
I refuse to argue about the rest of it.
It is a simple thing that I ask - how would it be possible to fabricate such a thing from whole cloth? Answer that question, and I'll adopt your point of view. But be warned that many others have tried and failed to do so. It is logically impossible, given human nature. But don't let that stop you - show me that it is a boast by some means other than just saying or typing it.
His position began as and continues to be farcical.
You spoke to his "preconceived notions"...I would venture an educated guess that his are more likely to be "predispositions".
Thanks for your posts though, I appreciated them very much.
OK, now that this documentary has aired on TV, what does everyone think of it?
For me, there was a lot of distortion of what is written in the Bible, and I cannot agree that the Hebrews were really the Hyksos. The story just eliminates about 100 years of Egyptian history between the Hyksos and the Santorini eruption, and that destroys much of its credibility for me. Additionally, there was no effort made to reconcile the Orthodox Jewish chronology of the Bible with the assumptions made here, which further eroded its credibility. If Moses lived, as the show indicated, some 280 years before Solomon, then that'd be somewhere around 1280 BCE - because King David (Solomon's father) reigned beginning circa 1004 BCE. Even if Moses died in 1280 BCE at age 120, his birth would be some 100 years AFTER the 1500 BCE or so that the documentary postulates for the time of the Exodus or the Santorini eruption (not to mention that the miraculous events of the Exodus only started when Moses was 80.
Some aspects of the program were very well thought out and done, particularly the part about the location of Mt. Sinai. I'm not sure that the posited site is the correct one, but it at least is plausible (and far more so than the site chosen by St. Catherine). I'm still waiting for a better explanation of the whole thing - this was good,
As for the causes of the plagues, I don't see how the use of natural phenomenon means that there was any less of a series of miracles than claimed in the Bible. For those events to have occurred just when the Israelites needed them to occur, and to victimize the Egyptians so much so that the Israelites could leave, is too much of a coincidence to be just random geological/biological events. That the Israelites escaped and no one else did is very telling, as is the fact that the Israelites could leave while the Egyptian couldn't or didn't want to stop them is highly suggestive of a selective application of the plagues...which doesn't occur naturally.
funny how everything is mythology to "some" scholars and "some" archaeologists and that is treated as science or fact to "some" media.
strange that these so called scholars don't afford the bible (which happens to be the king of all ancient documents according to a number of important criteria) the same respect they afford to much less impressive historical documents.
Comments now that the show aired?
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