Study: Modern Humans Killed Off Neanderthals Quickly

http://www.foxnews.com ^ | Saturday, February 25, 2006 | AP

[ThreePuttinDude]

LONDON — Neanderthals in Europe were killed off by the advance of modern humans thousands of years earlier than previously believed, losing a competition for food and shelter, according to a scientific study published Wednesday.

The research uses advances in radiocarbon dating to revise understanding of early humans, suggesting they colonized Europe more rapidly and coexisted for a much shorter period with genetic ancestors.

Paul Mellars, professor of prehistory and human evolution at the University of Cambridge and author of the study, said Neanderthals — the species of the Homo genus that lived in Europe and western Asia from around 230,000 years ago to around 29,000 years ago — succumbed much more readily to competition.

"The two sides were competing for the same territories, the same animals and fuel supplies and occupying the same cave spaces. With that kind of competition, the Neanderthals were always going to come out as the losers," said Mellars, whose paper was published in the journal Nature.

Modern humans — those anatomically the same as people today — were also better equipped to deal with a 6 degree Celsius (11 Fahrenheit) fall in temperatures around 40,000 years ago.

"Because they had better clothing, better technology(??) and a better mastery of fire, the humans were equipped to deal with it," Mellars said.

Mellars used the results of two recent studies of radiocarbon dating — a process of assessing age by counting radioactive decay of carbon in materials — to refine dates determined from fossils, bone fragments and other physical evidence that relates to the spread of humans.

[VadeRetro]

I tend to jump on certain kinds of answers because of--shall I say--the quality of most of my correspondents here on FR requires me to keep a guard up. But I misread posts all the time myself. At any rate, the second study you cited to me fully incorporates my objections and still makes a good case for very low to nil interbreeding.

[Graymatter]

I'm just guessing, but I would bet that the smells associated with menstruation would generally make the female "available". That's not to say that there aren't deviants

Well now! That's quite a balloon floating by. We are talking about fairly recent humans. What's your evidence that they were prompted more by their noses (now a very poor source of information) than by their eyes, as they certainly are today? Eyes, and of course opportunity.
As for menstruating women being available rather than the opposite, and perhaps also downright frightening to primitive man, we needn't even go there. I'll presume you meant sexually mature women at any point in a cycle. Still, I believe she'd have smelled like whatever she was wearing. Flowers. Leather. Ideally, fur. :)

[zakbrow]

A new thread started that touches on this subject.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1585479/posts

[AntiGuv]

Don't worry about it. The quality of my posts has been relatively abysmal in this thread, and I don't mind getting called out on that. I tell myself over & over not to post when my mind's inadequately engaged (e.g., sleepy, tired, sick, etc.) but I can't seem to help myself!

[Waywardson]

This has been an interesting debate. And while I will not interject my personal views into the discussion as they may set us off on another course, I will simply recommned that anyone who actually finds this topic of curious interest should explore the fiction books by Jean M Auel.

While I reject her neo-paganism and somewhat creative science, she does write with a very reasoned supposition which would at the least provide an entertaining theory to about every question raised in this entire thread.

I am looking forward to her next book in this series. I do not mention the name of the books because her first book was turned into a movie and the movie version was so bad she sued them and won.

Do your own google and then if you use such tools that allow you to access books and media for free trials, search them and see for yourself. Her first and second books were the best and she has fallen into formula since, but still, worth the read if this topic is of any interest to you.

Enjoy.

[aimhigh]

I periodically see people with sloped forheads.

[brazzaville]

Good morning.
"What's your evidence that they were prompted more by their noses (now a very poor source of information) than by their eyes..."

It's not really possible to have evidence as to what Neanderthal would have done when he smelled a female's new ability to reproduce. We cannot know much about him beyond how he was built and a few examples of how he viewed his place in the world around him

There are examples in the animal world of several techniques being used to attract a male. A baboon might develop swollen parts which she then exposes to the available males and a distinctive smell is common to many species.

I've not read anything that shows Neanderthal making him or herself attractive to the opposite sex so, as I said, I'm just guessing that smell had a big part in announcing that there was a potential new mother in the group.

It's true that menstruation would likely have led the group to send the new woman away until things were back to normal. That was often the case until the last couple of centuries, but it also announced that she was ready. There are times in the cycle when the lady is most fertile and I would bet that smell played a major part in planting a seed. Like I said, just guessing.

Michael Frazier

[Max in Utah]

The quality of my posts has been relatively abysmal in this thread, and I don't mind getting called out on that.

Hey, you're doing okay-- it's hard work!

[Max in Utah]

Still, I believe she'd have smelled like whatever she was wearing. Flowers. Leather. Ideally, fur. :)

Body odor. Tons of it. I think pheromones were more of a factor in the old days. Call it the Ol'factor factor.

[Graymatter]

It's not really possible to have evidence as to what Neanderthal would have done when he smelled a female's new ability to reproduce.

I feel confident in saying that he would have done the same thing he'd have done when he smelled a knothole in a maple tree. And it's highly doubtful that Neandertal Man had any grasp of the notion of ability to reproduce. Even if he had, as far as I've ever been able to determine, the scent of a "new ability" of a female to reproduce is not what turns a male on.
What went through his 1500cc head was probably...
Female---check.
Alone---check.
I can overpower her---check.
Age, smell, and what happens nine months later, they were all well beside the point. Quite often they still are.

[Graymatter]

>>The quality of my posts has been relatively abysmal in this thread, and I don't mind getting called out on that.

>>>Hey, you're doing okay-- it's hard work!

You're too modest, AntiGuv, without your excellent posts I'd have folded in the first 50.

[connectthedots]

Haven't the evolutionists said that modern man descended from neanderthals? If what this article says is true, where did modern humans come from?

This article is nothing more than wild speculation; typical of almost all evolutionary thought.

[Max in Utah]

With the above images in mind, go here: PINTUBI-1, A Modern Australoid Points To The Past. The features of this Australian Aborigine skull compares very closely with the Neanderthal type.

[FreedomCalls]

Being physically hardier, it would be expected that they would live at least on the edges of survival.

Gorillas and Man

"There was a time, prior to 1847, when the gorilla was the 'yeti' of Central Africa. It was dismissed as a "silly native legend" until white men saw gorillas for themselves and had to accept that the great ape really did exist! It was the lowland gorilla that was first seen by white men - the mountain gorilla was not 'discovered' until 1901."

[hershey]

Oddly, this is going on today...Arabs stuck in the eighth century. Everybody else going great guns with tech. advancement, etc.. But for some reason (oil), we're propping up the Arabs.

[Torie]

What do we think of this possible reason for the failure to find a trace of the Neandrathal in us?

[brazzaville]

Good afternoon.
"I feel confident in saying that he would have done the same thing he'd have done when he smelled a knothole in a maple tree."

I'm glad you are confident.

I've seen animals lift their heads and smell the breeze when there is a female in season in the vicinity, followed by the lad beating feet in the right direction. More to the point, I know my response to the scent of soap and woman and I don't have to see her to respond.

The reality is that we don't know what Neanderthal understood about reproduction, and you are ignoring the evidence of the body's ability to react to it's senses.

"Age, smell, and what happens nine months later, they were all well beside the point. Quite often they still are."

That's true, but we could address the age part if we stated hanging pedophiles.

Michael Frazier

[Coyoteman]

Haven't the evolutionists said that modern man descended from neanderthals?

No.

where did modern humans come from?

Archaic humans, Homo erectus, possibly Homo ergaster, Homo habilis, the Australopithicenes, and on.... See chart:

Source: http://wwwrses.anu.edu.au/environment/eePages/eeDating/HumanEvol_info.html

[Coyoteman]

Bad link.

[connectthedots]

Archaic humans, Homo erectus, possibly Homo ergaster, Homo habilis, the Australopithicenes, and on.... See chart:

You mean, more speculation? Where did these come from?