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Scientists discover most fertile Irish male
Reuters on Yahoo ^ | 1/17/06 | Siobhan Kennedy

Posted on 01/17/2006 9:16:45 AM PST by NormsRevenge

DUBLIN (Reuters) - Scientists in Ireland may have found the country's most fertile male, with more than 3 million men worldwide among his offspring.

The scientists, from Trinity College Dublin, have discovered that as many as one in twelve Irish men could be descended from Niall of the Nine Hostages, a 5th-century warlord who was head of the most powerful dynasty in ancient Ireland.

His genetic legacy is almost as impressive as Genghis Khan, the Mongol emperor who conquered most of Asia in the 13th century and has nearly 16 million descendants, said Dan Bradley, who supervised the research.

"It's another link between profligacy and power," Bradley told Reuters. "We're the first generation on the planet where if you're successful you don't (always) have more children."

The research was carried out by PhD student Laoise Moore, at the Smurfit Institute of Genetics at Trinity. Moore, testing the Y chromosome which is passed on from fathers to sons, examined DNA samples from 800 males across Ireland.

The results -- which have been published in the American Journal of Human Genetics -- showed the highest concentration of related males in northwest Ireland, where one in five males had the same Y chromosome.

Bradley said the results reminded the team of a similar study in central Asia, where scientists found 8 percent of men with the same Y chromosome. Subsequent studies found they shared the same chromosome as the dynasty linked to Genghis Khan.

GENGHIS KHAN EFFECT

"It made us wonder if there could be some sort of Genghis Khan effect in Ireland and the best candidate for it was Niall," Bradley said.

His team then consulted with genealogical experts who provided them with a contemporary list of people with surnames that are genealogically linked to the last known relative of the "Ui Neill" dynasty, which literally means descendants of Niall.

The results showed the new group had the same chromosome as those in the original sample, proving a link between them and the Niall descendents.

"The frequency (of the Y chromosome) was significantly higher in that genealogical group than any other group we tested," said Bradley, whose surname is also linked to the medieval warlord. Other modern surnames tracing their ancestry to Niall include Gallagher, Boyle, O'Donnell and O'Doherty.

For added proof, the scientists used special techniques to age the Y chromosome, according to how many mutations had occurred in the genetic material over time. The number of mutations was found to be in accordance with chromosomes that would date back to the last known living relative of Niall.

Niall reportedly had 12 sons, many of whom became powerful Irish kings themselves. But because he lived in the 5th century, there have been doubts the king -- who is said to have brought the country's patron saint, Patrick, to Ireland -- even existed.

"Before I would have said that characters like Niall were almost mythological, like King Arthur, but this actually puts flesh on the bones," Bradley said.

When international databases were checked, the chromosome also turned up in roughly 2 percent of all male New Yorkers.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ancientautopsies; ancientnavigation; bigpimpin; boyle; discover; dna; evolution; fartyshadesofgreen; gallagher; genealogy; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; humangenetics; ireland; irish; male; mostfertile; mtdna; niall; niallofthe9hostages; ninehostages; odoherty; odonnell; polygamy; scientists
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To: NormsRevenge

...I read the whole article and saw the same therein.


41 posted on 01/17/2006 9:32:31 AM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: Lekker 1

Smurfit Institute of Genetics...

Evidently not.....

http://www.tcd.ie/Genetics/


42 posted on 01/17/2006 9:32:47 AM PST by PeterPrinciple (Seeking the truth here folks.)
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To: AntiGuv
"There is absolutely nothing in genetic research to even remotely suggest even the most infinitesimal possibility of one-family bottleneck in human genetics within the timeframe that the mythical Noah and Adam would've lived."

The Bible does not describe a bottleneck, some man invented it.
43 posted on 01/17/2006 9:34:52 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: NormsRevenge
Its a fact that in ancient times conquest was tied to rape. When you plundered, you screwed your fallen foes women. This is why Khan has so many descendants, and explains Niall, Charlemagne, and other conquerors genes being so common today.

Despite the legends about the burning forge, it's likely that Niall became high king the way most Irish kings did...by killing those who opposed him. This would have given him a lot of opportunity to spread his seed, so to speak.

I'd be curious to know how common his genes are OUTSIDE of Ireland. What made Niall so famous wasn't that he was high king (there were lots of those), but that he was such a prolific raider. There are semi-legendary stories of him leading raiding parties all the way to the Alps, and it's fairly well established that he raided the coasts of Scotland, Wales, England, France, and Germany with impunity. That's a lot of raiding, and a lot of potential "seed spreading".
44 posted on 01/17/2006 9:34:59 AM PST by Arthalion
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To: Mr. Brightside
How does this guy compare to Wilt Chamberlain?

Not nearly as consistent "in the paint".

45 posted on 01/17/2006 9:35:41 AM PST by PBRSTREETGANG
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To: AntiGuv

Abraham had eight named sons in the Old Testament. Many were never named, but were implied, by his concubines. He, being the Father of all Jews, Levites, Benjaminites, Arabs, Edomites, Midianites, and the Lost tribes of Israel, his genetic material, ie DNA, must be spread all over the planet......


46 posted on 01/17/2006 9:35:43 AM PST by Red Badger (And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him)
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To: Red Badger

I can accept that, but nonetheless Abraham was not Irish!

Regardless of what he was.


47 posted on 01/17/2006 9:36:57 AM PST by AntiGuv (™)
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To: AntiGuv

But the Irish could be (and probably are) descendants of Abraham.......


48 posted on 01/17/2006 9:38:45 AM PST by Red Badger (And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him)
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To: Happygal

Surely ye must have an opinion here. ; )


49 posted on 01/17/2006 9:38:54 AM PST by TheBigB ("Pitts. has no chance indoors against Indy. NONE."~~maineman)
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To: Just mythoughts

If Genesis were literally true, there would be a one-family genetic bottleneck at the juncture of Noah's flood - i.e., everyone would be traced back to Noah's unnamed wife, and everyone would be traced back to Noah as well unless his wife was an adulteress before the flood.

And obviously everyone would trace back to Adam & Eve if that were literally true.


50 posted on 01/17/2006 9:41:16 AM PST by AntiGuv (™)
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To: AntiGuv

Timeframe issues aside (which are huge, admittedly), there were plenty of 1-heatbeat genetic bottlenecks.

Google:

"Y-chromosome Adam"
"mitochondrial Eve"

Basically, all humans share at least one, and probably more than one, male and femal ancestor.

Of course, they can't say --- with any certainty --- that the given, proven "adam" (a real misnomer) and "eve" (same) lived at remotely the same time.

That said, obviously each of the bottlenecks had parents, who could presumably qualify.

And yes, I am greatly over-simplifying for brevity.

And no, I am not saying that this is proof of Genesis.

Just that the science and the Bible are not inconsistent, which is something both sides of such debates often forget.


51 posted on 01/17/2006 9:42:40 AM PST by MeanWestTexan (Many at FR would respond to Christ "Darn right, I'll cast the first stone!")
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To: Red Badger

The Irish all could be (and probably are) descendents of a paramecium, but that paramecium is not the most fertile Irishman.


52 posted on 01/17/2006 9:43:09 AM PST by AntiGuv (™)
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To: MeanWestTexan

Like you said, the timeframe issues are huge. If Genesis is taken as metaphor, then that's a whole 'nother story. In other words, I completely agree with you.

But Adam and Eve would still not be Irishmen!!!


53 posted on 01/17/2006 9:45:10 AM PST by AntiGuv (™)
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To: NormsRevenge

My wife teaches at a french school here in San Francisco and every year this one kid brings a list indicating he decends from Charlamagne. I guess if your offspring and their offspring survive for a couple of thousand years you are gonna have a lot of descendants.


54 posted on 01/17/2006 9:45:18 AM PST by SF Republican
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To: AntiGuv

LOL!!...The point I was trying to make was that the "Fertility" of the Irish may have been inherited through descendants of Abraham. Somebody got the "hot" gene............


55 posted on 01/17/2006 9:46:09 AM PST by Red Badger (And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him)
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To: Lekker 1
Smurfit Institute of Genetics

They also determined that Papa Smurf was the most fertile Smurf and Smurfette was the most tired.

56 posted on 01/17/2006 9:46:41 AM PST by techcor
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To: AntiGuv
Genesis says there were TWO different days of creation. The first was on the 6th day and the second is described happening after the 7th day of rest wherein there was no man to till the ground. Then the ground tiller was formed and he was given a whole new set of animals to name.

Note back in that first description man in the flesh created in the image of OUR and God, was given dominion of animals, sea, etc., totally different than the creatures of the tiller of the ground was given.

The Bible is about The Adam, his generations and the generations he and his came into contact with until to birth of Christ who is the giver of life. Eve was said to be the mother of all living.... and WHO does the Bible tells us it is that is the LIFE giver.... Christ.
57 posted on 01/17/2006 9:48:50 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: AntiGuv

That is why it is called "faith".


58 posted on 01/17/2006 9:50:30 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: NormsRevenge

He may have been fertile, but he was still hung like a roll of dimes.


59 posted on 01/17/2006 9:51:08 AM PST by ChuckShick (He's clerking for me...)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Faith or no faith, Noah and Adam were not Irishmen! Geez.. ;^)
60 posted on 01/17/2006 9:52:11 AM PST by AntiGuv (™)
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