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"The evolution wars" in Time [Time Magazine's cover story]
National Center for Science Education ^ | 11 August 2005 | Staff

Posted on 08/13/2005 3:49:15 PM PDT by PatrickHenry

The cover story of the August 15, 2005, issue of Time magazine is Claudia Wallis's "The evolution wars" -- the first cover story on the creationism/evolution controversy in a major national newsweekly in recent memory.

With "When Bush joined the fray last week, the question grew hotter: Is 'intelligent design' a real science? And should it be taught in schools?" as its subhead, the article, in the space of over 3000 words, reviews the current situation in detail. Highlights of the article include:

While Wallis's article is inevitably not as scientifically detailed as, for example, H. Allen Orr's recent article in The New Yorker, or as politically astute as, for example, Chris Mooney's recent article in The American Prospect, overall it accomplishes the important goal of informing the general reader that antievolutionism -- whether it takes the form of creation science, "intelligent design," or calls to "teach the controversy" -- is scientifically unwarranted, pedagogically irresponsible, and constitutionally problematic.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: crevolist; darwinschmarwin; headinsand; scienceeducation; timemag; timemagazine
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To: Quick1

Has it occurred to you that some theories might be weaker than others, or are you too slow?


481 posted on 08/17/2005 7:37:34 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: longshadow
. . . toilet cleaners, and squeegee men . . .

Lo and behold, there IS a future for evolutionists!

482 posted on 08/17/2005 7:39:09 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Quick1

Very poor comparison, for one thing there is imperical proof the moon landing happened, it is not a THEORY as you would presume for this argument and there fore negates the rest of your argument altogether.

That being said, physics, atomics etc are not in contention and therefore do not need to be argued or disclaimered, and there are for more proven facets of the above fields.

Try again


483 posted on 08/17/2005 7:59:19 PM PDT by aft_lizard (This space waiting for a post election epiphany it now is: Question Everything)
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To: WildTurkey
"Obviously, if God had intended for us to use computers, he would have had Noah proficient in fortran.

A just God would never have used Fortran, he would have used "C" or "C++"

484 posted on 08/17/2005 7:59:37 PM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: b_sharp
What on earth are you thinking?!? God uses A++!
485 posted on 08/17/2005 8:01:21 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: longshadow

Geez people would think by reading you puritanical evolutionists that by allowing ID you would start a Domino effect of eradicating science altogether, or that Darwinism, neo-darwinism and its forms are the basis of all scientific fields and must be held up without scrutiny by anybody who disagrees with it, even if that somebody is 2/3 of the planet.


486 posted on 08/17/2005 8:03:54 PM PDT by aft_lizard (This space waiting for a post election epiphany it now is: Question Everything)
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To: Fester Chugabrew
Didn't you know that all those illiterate peasants in the school boards talk about things like someone's problem with the moon landing and the circumference of the earth all the time. By golly, if you do not buy the whole heap of dung being shoveled by the top evolutionists then you must not believe we went to the moon, you must be agin cy-ince.

Didn't you know that those topics like the moon landing are so very important and are the basis used by the practical humanists to ram their religion of secular humanism down the throats of the children. (/sarcasm)

487 posted on 08/17/2005 8:05:46 PM PDT by OriginalIntent (Liberals always lie about everything.---- The ACLU needs to be investigated and exposed.)
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To: Fester Chugabrew
"You really don't understand? I doubt it. But do you understand your point is irrelevant to the subject at hand? Do you really think the lunar landing has been as much a subject of controversy as the philosophy of evolution?[emphasis mine]

Are you arguing that the inappropriateness of the analogy is a matter of degree rather than substance? Never heard of that one.

488 posted on 08/17/2005 8:06:07 PM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: Fester Chugabrew; b_sharp; Alamo-Girl; VadeRetro
"Direct observation" is a hallucination courtesy of your brain.

Jeepers, I'd like to see someone try to cash that check at the bank....

Thanks for the head's-up, Chester!

489 posted on 08/17/2005 8:06:31 PM PDT by betty boop (Nature loves to hide. -- Heraclitus)
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To: Fester Chugabrew
"This is a gross oversimplification. The two entities - evolution and atoms - are so disparate by nature as to be incomparable. One is history. The other is present tense. At the same time, neither is fully apprehendable by human observation.

The point of the analogy is the reliance on direct observation. Changing the point of the analogy so you can dismiss it isn't reallymuch of an argument. If both are indirect and if neither is fully apprehensible, then the difference between history and present tense is meaningless.

490 posted on 08/17/2005 8:14:34 PM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: b_sharp
Are you arguing that the inappropriateness of the analogy is a matter of degree rather than substance?

Well, yes. Substance effects degree and vice versa. I do not count it a problem that certain propositions have more certitude than others. The adherents of evolutionism would like to enjoy a scientific certitude that simply does not exist.

Be that as it may, what makes you absolutely certain the lunar landings were not staged? Is it the number of people who have testified to their veracity?

491 posted on 08/17/2005 8:14:48 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: b_sharp
If both are indirect and if neither is fully apprehensible, then the difference between history and present tense is meaningless.

You place less confidence in intuition and the present moment than do I. To me there is more physical certitude when dealing with the present than when dealing with the past or the future.

492 posted on 08/17/2005 8:19:38 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Fester Chugabrew

I'll pick this up at a later time. I have to retire tonight and I have trips scheduled for the next two days.


493 posted on 08/17/2005 8:22:28 PM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: b_sharp

Okay. God bless and grant safe travels to and fro.


494 posted on 08/17/2005 8:27:24 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Fester Chugabrew

LOLOL! Thanks for the chuckle!


495 posted on 08/17/2005 9:04:02 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop

Indeed. Thanks for the ping!


496 posted on 08/17/2005 9:07:29 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: PatrickHenry; Aetius; Alamo-Girl; AndrewC; Asphalt; betty boop; bondserv; bvw; D Rider; dartuser; ..
"[T]he essential characteristics of science are:

- (1) It is guided by natural law;

- (2) It has to be explanatory by reference to nature law;

- (3) It is testable against the empirical world;

- (4) Its conclusions are tentative, i.e. are not necessarily the final word; and

- (5) Its is falsifiable."

Is it any surprise to anyone here that PH left out the most important element defining science: It must be OBJECTIVE ??

Any way, even by PH's definition, evolution fails the test. It is emotion, fear, belief, and unyielding devotion, to the point that the ends always justify the means. In other words, evolution is a religion of the same class as Islam.

497 posted on 08/17/2005 9:24:35 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Atheist and Fool are synonyms; Evolution is where fools hide from the sunrise)
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To: aft_lizard
I myself believe that evolution works well within the constructs of the bible and even intelligent design.

It is really an inadvertent admission that life in an immaculate conception...

498 posted on 08/17/2005 9:24:49 PM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Fester Chugabrew
The adherents of evolutionism would like to enjoy a scientific certitude that simply does not exist.

A sort of ‘sanctification,’ in other words...

499 posted on 08/17/2005 9:29:38 PM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: editor-surveyor; PatrickHenry; betty boop
Thank you for the ping!

PatrickHenry, I assert that the problem with your list is in points 1 and 2:

"[T]he essential characteristics of science are:

- (1) It is guided by natural law;

- (2) It has to be explanatory by reference to nature law;

If one views "nature" as only being "matter in all its motions" then he has swept every non-corporeal off the table.

That would include such things as information (successful communications), mathematical structures, geometries, forms, intelligence, etc. In the fields of mathematics and physics which deal with such things, some theories may be beyond direct observation or empirical testing (your point number 3) and may instead have to be supported by indirect observations and tests.

500 posted on 08/17/2005 9:34:51 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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