Posted on 08/13/2005 3:49:15 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
The cover story of the August 15, 2005, issue of Time magazine is Claudia Wallis's "The evolution wars" -- the first cover story on the creationism/evolution controversy in a major national newsweekly in recent memory.
With "When Bush joined the fray last week, the question grew hotter: Is 'intelligent design' a real science? And should it be taught in schools?" as its subhead, the article, in the space of over 3000 words, reviews the current situation in detail. Highlights of the article include:
While Wallis's article is inevitably not as scientifically detailed as, for example, H. Allen Orr's recent article in The New Yorker, or as politically astute as, for example, Chris Mooney's recent article in The American Prospect, overall it accomplishes the important goal of informing the general reader that antievolutionism -- whether it takes the form of creation science, "intelligent design," or calls to "teach the controversy" -- is scientifically unwarranted, pedagogically irresponsible, and constitutionally problematic.
We could throw out math too.
I do not know where Behe stands on evolution; what manner and degree of change he accepts and over what period of time. Regardless, I am not bound to Behe's words, I am not bound to yours, and I am not bound to the words of "tens of thousands of physicists who accept the mainstream determination of the age of the earth." If you want to bind yourself to any of the above that is fine with me.
It was accepted for decades, if not centuries before Darwin.
If the biblical texts are any indication, evolutionism has been an alternative point of view for several millennia. I am not as concerned about how old it is or how many people believe it as I am about whether it constututes "science" and "scientific method."
You have Bill Clinton's ability to compartmentalize.
WTF? I share human nature with Bill Clinton, to be sure. I also have the capacity to compartmentalize. What's your point? Or is this a "guilt by association" argument?
But that is not what I did. If you want me to state things more plainly and with a comma or two, then I shall. Just let me know, kid.
Actually this is not at all a possibility I "refuse to consider." I just don't think it rises to the level of science, just like creationism and evolutionism. You dig?
You've also avoided the point I made of your faith in a 6000 year old earth, and the vast regions of science you've therefore thrown out.
Well, it's not like evolutionism has ever forthrightly acknowledged its axioms, either. Be that as it may, I will address our point forthrighty.
Just because I declare myself to be a "young earth creationist" does not mean I subscribe to the idea of a 6,000 year old earth. I do NOT subscribe to a 4.5 billion year old earth and I do NOT have to discard respectable scientific practices to do so. Neither do I feel inclined to believe in a 4.5 billion year old earth just because a gaggle of folks who rely upon their own reason and senses as the ultimate source of truth say so.
I hope you are not under the illusion that what we are discussing here is science, but the opposite is apparent.
Good luck! If it's bothering you enough that you know you need it done, it's worth it.
No. Don't be like them. Actually it's too late. You and your buddies have already injected a philosophy into science, and now you get all bent out of shape when another philosophy comes along to have its say at the microphone. Both of you need to let science do what it does, and quietly espouse your viewpoint under a label other than science.
Well fester, since you've decided that you are the final arbiter of what is, and what is not science, then it's obvious that you can believe any silly thing you wish, and still claim the mantle of "science".
Have fun in your own little fantasy world fester.
At least you know where I stand. But my stance obviously does not make me the "final arbiter" for anyone else. Where do you stand? Do you consider reasonable conjecture over unrecorded (i.e. written down in human language), unobserved history to be science? If so, please explain how creationism is to be disqualified as "science?"
Thanks.
"Absolutely no evidence."
Isn't that a rather absolute claim to make for someone who has not investigated whether any evidence really exists? Or have you already investigated all aspects of astrology and found this to be the case? My gut feeling is that you've made this assertion via gut feeling, and not scientific, let alone personally extensive, research.
BTW, I would have used the words "related to" as opposed to "concurrent with," but that's just me.
Not very charitable of you to make such ascriptions to those who have gone before us. Our forefathers were not a "bunch of ignorant savages" any more than you are one.
I realize you really, really, don't like evolution, but comparing the study of evolution to astrology is a bit over the top.
math serves a purpose in life, knwing whether or not we evolved from a ape does not serve any purpose other than to fill classroom time. remove darwinism now.
Hafta understand it before you can truthfully say you don't like it. There is a virulent opposition to, well...something, though.
I see you have finally accepted the truth, my son. It appears that the moon is in your 5th house and you shall reap the luck of the chosen.
On the face of it the two appear disparate, but in essence they are not much different. I am willing to grant both a place in the realm of ideas. "Evolution" is a big word. There is a dab or two of truth to it. That's about all, unless one is devoted to a philosophy science does not typically operate with. In that case, evolution is the one and only answer.
I was interested until I got until the part where it called an American Prospect article "politically astute". Blech. I wonder if the author read John Derbyshire's article in National Review way back in February; it's by far the best denunciation of ID I've read outside of the scientific press.
Personal attack? You attacked me by taking and seperating a sentence from there entire argument.
OK lets play your game then.
Ahh, the personal attack>>>>>
What personal attack.
the kick in the shins before running away.>>>
I never touched you.
You just >>>>
I just what?
See how ignmorant that is. And that is essentially what you did.
Good day.
How much do I have to "understand" death before I can truthfully say I don't like it? While I may harbor a dislike for evolutionism, it is not due to any lack of reasonability on its part. Its inability to recognize and acknowledge its assumptions while setting itself up as solely worthy of a scientific label is what bothers me.
I don't like ideas that proclaim themselves as truthful when they are incapable of expressing the basis upon which they are formed. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that evolutionism fails the test of credibility in view of blindness to its own biases.
Not very charitable of him, is it?
"Will be my turn next."
Saw this and checked back into the thread a little. Whatever awaits you in regard to physical matters, my hope and prayer is that it is only the best for you. Yes.
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