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A Clue to the Meaning of the Universe
C.S.Lewis - Mere Christianity ^ | Beginning Aprox.1930-2005 | C.S.Lewis

Posted on 08/05/2005 8:27:23 AM PDT by Matchett-PI

Right and Wrong as a Clue to the Meaning of the Universe

The Law of Human Nature

EVERY ONE HAS HEARD people quarreling. Sometimes it sounds funny and sometimes it sounds merely unpleasant; but however it sounds, I believe we can learn something very important from listening to the kinds of things they say. They say things like this: "How’d you like it if anyone did the same to you?"--‘That’s my seat, I was there first"--"Leave him alone, he isn’t doing you any harm"--"Why should you shove in first?"--"Give me a bit of your orange, I gave you a bit of mine"--"Come on, you promised." People say things like that every day, educated people as well as uneducated, and children as well as grown-ups.

Now what interests me about all these remarks is that the man who makes them is not merely saying that the other man’s behavior does not happen to please him. He is appealing to some kind of standard of behavior which he expects the other man to know about. And the other man very seldom replies: "To hell with your standard." Nearly always he tries to make out that what he has been doing does not really go against the standard, or that if it does there is some special excuse. He pretends there is some special reason in this particular case why the person who took the seat first should not keep it, or that things were quite different when he was given the bit of orange, or that some thing has turned up which lets him off keeping his promise. It looks, in fact, very much as if both parties had in mind some kind of Law or Rule of fair play or decent behavior or morality or whatever you like to call it, about which they really agreed. And they have. If they had not, they might, of course, fight like animals, but they could not quarrel in the human sense of the word. Quarreling means trying to show that the other man is in the wrong. And there would be no sense in trying to do that unless you and he had some sort of agreement as to what Right and Wrong are; just as there would be no sense in saying that a footballer had committed a foul unless there was some agreement about the rules of football.

Now this Law or Rule about Right and Wrong used to be called the Law of Nature. Nowadays, when we talk of the "laws of nature" we usually mean things like gravitation, or heredity, or the laws of chemistry. But when the older thinkers called the Law of Right and Wrong "the Law of Nature," they really meant the Law of Human Nature. The idea was that, just as all bodies are governed by the law of gravitation and organisms by biological laws, so the creature called man also had his law--with this great difference, that a body could not choose whether it obeyed the law of gravitation or not, but a man could choose either to obey the Law of Human Nature or to disobey it.

We may put this in another way. Each man is at every moment subjected to several sets of law but there is only one of these which he is free to disobey. As a body, he is subjected to gravitation and cannot disobey it; if you leave him unsupported in mid-air, he has no more choice about falling than a stone has. As an organism, he is subjected to various biological laws which he cannot disobey any more than an animal can. That is, he cannot disobey those laws which he shares with other things; but the law which is peculiar to his human nature, the law he does not share with animals or vegetables or inorganic things, is the one he can disobey if he chooses

This law was called the Law of Nature because people thought that every one knew it by nature and did not need to be taught it. They did not mean, of course, that you might not find an odd individual here and there who did not know it, just as you find a few people who are color-blind or have no ear for a tune. But taking the race as a whole, they thought that the human idea of decent behavior was obvious to every one. And I believe they were right. If they were not, then all the things we said about the war were nonsense. What was the sense in saying the enemy were in the wrong unless Right is a real thing which the Nazis at bottom knew as well as we did and ought to have practiced! If they had no notion of what we mean by right, then, though we might still have had to fight them, we could no more have blamed them for that than for the color of their hair.

I know that some people say the idea of a Law of Nature or decent behavior known to all men is unsound, because different civilizations and different ages have had quite different moralities.

But this is not true. There have been differences between their moralities, but these have never amounted to anything like a total difference. If anyone will take the trouble to compare the moral teaching of, say, the ancient Egyptians, Babylonians, Hindus, Chinese, Creeks and Romans, what will really strike him will be how very like they are to each other and to our own. Some of the evidence for this I have put together in the appendix of another book called The Abolition of Man; but for our present purpose I need only ask the reader to think what a totally different morality would mean. Think of a country where people were admired for running away in battle, or where a man felt proud of double-crossing all the people who had been kindest to him. You might just as well try to imagine a country where two and two made five. Men have differed as regards what people you ought to be unselfish to--whether it was only your own family, or your fellow countrymen, or everyone. But they have always agreed that you ought not to put Yourself first. selfishness has never been admired. Men have differed as to whether you should have one wife or four. But they have always agreed that you must not simply have any woman you liked.

But the most remarkable thing is this. Whenever you find a man who says he does not believe in a real Right and Wrong, you will find the same man going back on this a moment later. He may break his promise to you, but if you try breaking one to him he will be complaining "It’s not fair" before you can say Jack Robinson. A nation may say treaties do not matter; but then, next minute, they spoil their case by saying that the particular treaty they want to break was an unfair one. But if treaties do not matter, and if there is no such thing as Right and Wrong--in other words, if there is no Law of Nature--what is the difference between a fair treaty and an unfair one? Have they not let the cat out of the bag and shown that, whatever they say, they really know the Law of Nature just like anyone else?

It seems, then, we are forced to believe in a real Right and Wrong People may be sometimes mistaken about them, just as people sometimes get their sums wrong; but they are not a matter of mere taste and opinion any more than the multiplication table. Now if we are agreed about that, I go on to my next point, which is this. None of us are really keeping the Law of Nature. If there are any exceptions among you, 1 apologize to them. They had much better read some other work, for nothing I am going to say concerns them. And now, turning to the ordinary human beings who are left:

I hope you will not misunderstand what I am going to say. I am not preaching, and Heaven knows I do not pretend to be better than anyone else. I am only trying to call attention to a fact; the fact that this year, or this month, or, more likely, this very day, we have failed to practice ourselves the kind of behavior we expect from other people. There may be all sorts of excuses for us. That time you were so unfair to the children was when you were very tired. That slightly shady business about the money--the one you have almost forgotten-came when you were very hard up. And what you promised to do for old So-and-so and have never done--well, you never would have promised if you had known how frightfully busy you were going to be. And as for your behavior to your wife (or husband) or sister (or brother) if I knew how irritating they could be, I would not wonder at it--and who the dickens am I, anyway? I am just the same. That is to say, I do not succeed in keeping the Law of Nature very well, and the moment anyone tells me I am not keeping it, there starts up in my mind a string of excuses as long as your arm. The question at the moment is not whether they are good excuses. The point is that they are one more proof of how deeply, whether we like it or not, we believe in the Law of Nature. If we do not believe in decent behavior, why should we be so anxious to make excuses for not having behaved decently? The truth is, we believe in decency so much--we feel the Rule of Law pressing on us so--that we cannot bear to face the fact that we are breaking it, and consequently we try to shift the responsibility. For you notice that it is only for our bad behavior that we find all these explanations. It is only our bad temper that we put down to being tired or worried or hungry; we put our good temper down to ourselves.

These, then, are the two points I wanted to make. First, that human beings, all over the earth, have this curious idea that they ought to behave in a certain way, and cannot really get rid of it. Secondly, that they do not in fact behave in that way. They know the Law of Nature; they break it. These two facts are the foundation of all clear thinking about ourselves and the universe we live in.


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: biology; creationism; cslewis; darwinism; evocrevo; evolution; id; intelligentdesign; science; scientism; zaq
Book 1, Chapter 2

Some Objections

If they are the foundation, I had better stop to make that foundation firm before I go on. Some of the letters I have had show that a good many people find it difficult to understand just what this Law of Human Nature, or Moral Law, or Rule of Decent Behavior is.

For example, some people wrote to me saying, 'Isn't what you call the Moral Law simply our herd instinct and hasn't it been developed just like all our other instincts?' Now I do not deny that we may have a herd instinct: but that is not what I mean by the Moral Law. We all know what it feels like to be prompted by instinct ­ by mother love, or sexual instinct, or the instinct for food. It means that you feel a strong want or desire to act in a certain way. And, of course, we sometimes do feel just that sort of desire to help another person: and no doubt that desire is due to the herd instinct. But feeling a desire to help is quite different from feeling that you ought to help whether you want to or not. Supposing you hear a cry for help from a man in danger. You will probably feel two desires ­ one desire to give help (due to your herd instinct), the other a desire to keep out of danger (due to the instinct for self-preservation). But you will find inside you, in addition to these two impulses, a third thing which tells you that you ought to follow the impulse to help, and suppress the impulse to run away. Now this thing that judges between two instincts, that decides which should be encouraged, cannot itself be either of them. You might as well say that the sheet of music which tells you, at a given moment, to play one note on the piano and not another, is itself one of the notes on the keyboard. The Moral Law tells us the tune we have to play: our instincts are merely the keys.

Another way of seeing that the Moral Law is not simply one of our instincts is this. If two instincts are in conflict, and there is nothing in a creature's mind except those two instincts, obviously the stronger of the two must win. But at those moments when we are most conscious of the Moral Law, it usually seems to be telling us to side with the weaker of the two impulses. You probably want to be safe much more than you want to help the man who is drowning: but the Moral Law tells you to help him all the same. And surely it often tells us to try to make the right impulse stronger than it naturally is? I mean, we often feel it our duty to stimulate the herd instinct, by waking up our imaginations and arousing our pity and so on, so as to get up enough steam for doing the right thing. But clearly we are not acting from instinct when we set about making an instinct stronger than it is. The thing that says to you, 'Your herd instinct is asleep. Wake it up,' cannot itself be the herd instinct. The thing that tells you which note on the piano needs to be played louder cannot itself be that note.

Here is a third way of seeing it. If the Moral Law was one of our instincts, we ought to be able to point to some one impulse inside us which was always what we call 'good,' always in agreement with the rule of right behaviors. But you cannot. There is none of our impulses which the Moral Law may not sometimes tell us to suppress, and none which it may not sometimes tell us to encourage. It is a mistake to think that some of our impulses ­ say mother love or patriotism ­ are good, and others, like sex or the fighting instinct, are bad. All we mean is that the occasions on which the fighting instinct or the sexual desire need to be restrained are rather more frequent than those for restraining mother love or patriotism. But there are situations in which it is the duty of a married man to encourage his sexual impulse and of a soldier to encourage the fighting instinct. There are also occasions on which a mother's love for her own children or a man's love for his own country have to be suppressed or they will lead to unfairness towards other people's children or countries. Strictly speaking, there are no such things as good and bad impulses. Think once again of a piano. It has not got two kinds of notes on it, the 'right' notes and the 'wrong' ones. Every single note is right at one time and wrong at another. The Moral Law is not any one instinct or set of instincts: it is something which makes a kind of tune (the tune we call goodness or right conduct) by directing the instincts.

By the way, the point is of great practical consequence. The most dangerous thing you can do is to take any one impulse of your own nature and set it up as the thing you ought to follow at all costs. There is not one of them which will not make us into devils if we set up as an absolute guide. You might think love of humanity in general was safe, but it is not. If you leave out justice you will find yourself breaking agreements and faking evidence in trials 'for the sake of humanity', and become in the end a cruel and treacherous man.

Other people wrote to me saying 'Isn't what you call the Moral Law just a social convention, something that is put into us by education?' I think there is a misunderstanding here. The people who ask that question are usually taking it for granted that if we have learned a thing from parents and teachers, then that thing must be merely a human invention. But, of course, that is not so. We all learned the multiplication table at school. A child who grew up alone on a desert island would not know it. But surely it does not follow that the multiplication table is simply a human convention, something human beings made up for themselves and might have made different if they had liked? I fully agree that we learn the Rule of Decent Behaviour from parents and teachers, and friends and books, as we learn everything else. But some of the things we learn are mere conventions which might have been different ­ we learn to keep to the left of the road, but it might just as well have been the rule to keep to the right ­ and others of them, like mathematics, are real truths. The questions is to which class the Law of Human Nature belongs.

There are two reasons for saying it belongs to the same class as mathematics. The first is, as I said in the first chapter, that though there are differences between the moral ideas of one time or country and those of another, the differences are not really very great ­ not nearly so great as most people imagine ­ and you can recognize the same lay running through them all: whereas mere conventions, like the rule of the road of the kinds or clothes people wear, may differ to any extent. The other reason is this. When you think about these differences between the morality of one people and another, do you think that the morality of one people is ever better or worse than that of another? Have any of the changes been improvements? If not, then of course there could never be any moral progress. Progress means not just changing, but changing for the better. If no set of moral ideas were truer or better than any other, there would be no sense in preferring civilized morality to savage morality, or Christian morality to Nazi morality. In fact, of course, we all do believe that some moralities are better than others. We do believe that some of the people who tried to change the moral ideas of their own age were what we would call Reformers of Pioneers ­ people who understood morality better than their neighbors did. Very well then. The moment you say that one set of moral ideas can be better than another, you are, in fact, measuring them both by a standard, saying that one of them conforms to that standard more nearly than the other. But the standard that measures two things is something different from either. You are, in fact, comparing them both with some Real Morality, admitting that there is such a thing as a real Right, independent of what people thing, and that some people's ideas get nearer to that real Right than others. Or put it this way. If your moral ideas can be truer, and those of the Nazis less true, there must be something ­ some Real Morality ­ for them to be true about. The reason why your idea of New York can be truer of less true than mine is that New York is a real place, existing quite apart from what either of us thinks. If when each of us said 'New York' each means merely 'The town I am imagining in my own head', how could one of us have truer ideas than the other? There would be no question of truth or falsehood at all. In the same way, if the Rule of Decent Behaviour meant simply 'whatever each nation happens to approve', there would be no sense in saying that any one nation had even been more correct in its approval than any other; no sense in saying that the world would ever grow morally better or morally worse.

I conclude then, that though the difference between people's ideas of Decent Behaviour often make you suspect that there is no real natural Law of Behaviour at all, yet the things we are bound to think about these differences really prove just the opposite. But one word before I end. I have met people who exaggerate the differences, because they have not distinguished between difference of morality and differences of belief about facts. For example, one man said to me, 'Three hundred years ago people in England were putting witches to death. Was that what you call the Rule of Human Nature or Right Conduct?' But surely the reason we do not execute witches is that we do not believe there are such things. If we did ­ if we really thought that there were people going about who had sold themselves to the devil and received supernatural powers from him in return and were using these powers to kill their neighbors or drive them mad or bring bad weather ­ surely we would all agree that if anyone deserved the death penalty, then these filthy quislings did? There is no difference of moral principle here: the difference is simple about matter of fact. It may be a great advance in knowledge not to believe in witches: there is no moral advance in not executing them when you do not think they are there. You would not call a man humane for ceasing to set mousetraps if he did so because he believes there were no mice in the house.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/questionofgod/ownwords/mere1.html

1 posted on 08/05/2005 8:27:23 AM PDT by Matchett-PI
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To: Matchett-PI

C.S. Lewis rocks.


2 posted on 08/05/2005 8:46:19 AM PDT by Alexander Rubin
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To: Alexander Rubin
You'd better believe it!

C.S.Lewis had the number of the LEGALISTS, who take the joy out of living for everyone whose lives they have a chance to impact. They were called, "busy-bodies" in my grandmother's day. They are called the "politically correct" today.

This is WHO they ARE (in or out of a "church" organization). They are the "good" people:

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under live robber barons than under omnipotent moral busibodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good, will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~ C.S. Lewis

3 posted on 08/05/2005 8:58:29 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law overarching rulers and ruled alike)
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To: Matchett-PI
.........First, that human beings, all over the earth, have this curious idea that they ought to behave in a certain way, and cannot really get rid of it...........

It's so true. And as the article describes, it takes a lot of work to duck this.

4 posted on 08/05/2005 8:58:57 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Matchett-PI

That is such a good way of putting it.

"It may be better to live under live robber barons than under omnipotent moral busibodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good, will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." I shall remember that.


5 posted on 08/05/2005 9:03:04 AM PDT by Alexander Rubin
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To: Matchett-PI

bUMP


6 posted on 08/05/2005 9:05:54 AM PDT by bubman
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To: oldglory; MinuteGal; JulieRNR21; mcmuffin; gonzo; sheikdetailfeather
"....When I told the students at Yale Law School that their school was responsible for law’s demise because the “school of critical legal studies” (deconstructionism) was born there, I thought I might start a riot.

But they didn’t argue with me, because they have rejected the law of noncontradiction.

I can believe one thing, and they can believe something absolutely antithetical, and we can both be right! Utterly preposterous!

But that is what deconstruction does. And it has affected literature, it has affected education, the law, and every area of life.

But Lewis saw where all of this would lead us. In “The Humanitarian Theory of Punishment,” he said it would give rise to the great utopian pretensions.

Deconstructionism opens the door to the great myth of the twentieth century: the goodness of man, that good people, freed of prudish Victorian restraints, can live in perfect bliss.

But since it is the “controllers” who deliver us from such restraints, it in fact leads to the smoldering ashes of Auschwitz and the flowing rivers of blood in the Cambodian killing fields. The disaster of the twentieth century was the belief that man is good and can create his own utopia.

Lewis saw this ever so clearly, as he wrote in the Abolition of Man:

“Let us decide for ourselves what man is to be and make him into that, not from any ground of imagined value, but because we want him to be such; having mastered our environment, let us now master ourselves and choose our own destiny. Man’s final conquest has proved to be the abolition of man.”

Subjectivism leads to tyranny. “The very idea of freedom,” Lewis wrote in “The Poison of Subjectivism,” “presupposes some objective moral order which overarches both ruler and ruled alike. Subjectivism about values is eternally incompatible with democracy. We and our rulers are of one kind only so long as we are subject to one law, but if there is no law of nature, the ethos of any society is the creation of its rulers, educators, and conditioners, and every creator stands outside his own creation.”

That expresses precisely the dilemma of the postmodern age. And remember who the barbarians are. The barbarians come, Lewis told us, not over the parapet, not carrying their clubs and wielding their weapons, but they come with polished fingernails and blue pin-striped suits, gathering in well-lighted conference rooms. They are the good people who say that they know how to make life better for all of us. ... "

Source: The Wilberforce Forum

7 posted on 08/05/2005 9:06:00 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law overarching rulers and ruled alike)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Exactly. You may want to check out #7, too, when you get time.
8 posted on 08/05/2005 9:14:08 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law overarching rulers and ruled alike)
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To: Alexander Rubin
That is such a good way of putting it. I shall remember that."

It's a picture that "fits" with it. Hahahaha

"It may be better to live under live robber barons than under omnipotent moral busibodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good, will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~ C.S.Lewis

"Isn't that Special?"


9 posted on 08/05/2005 9:22:49 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law overarching rulers and ruled alike)
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To: bubman

bump backatcha. Thanks!


10 posted on 08/05/2005 9:23:39 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law overarching rulers and ruled alike)
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later read...ping...


11 posted on 08/05/2005 9:33:02 AM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: Matchett-PI
I've read the book, and came away with the thought that even Solomon Island headhunting, cannibals have an innate moral compass of social etiquette,i.e., "no barging the queses please; women and children first, Hey! leggo of my leggo!".

I hope this makes sense.

12 posted on 08/05/2005 9:44:22 AM PDT by Studebaker Hawk (It's said that geeks are a dime-a-dozen. I'm looking for the man with the dimes. (Freddy Blassie))
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To: Studebaker Hawk
"I've read the book, and came away with the thought that even Solomon Island headhunting, cannibals have an innate moral compass of social etiquette,i.e., "no barging the queses please; women and children first, Hey! leggo of my leggo!". I hope this makes sense."

Oh, most definately. See my profile page and read the Emory Report regarding our "Reformed Constitution". Our Constitution is based on the reality of fallen human nature - it can't be trusted. "We can hope for the best, but expect the worst from each other." That's why we must be governed by an impartial rule of law based upon an unchanging standard. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" - or suffer the consequences.

"Do No Harm to Neighbor" = The Law of Love. Romans 13:10

Only internally-controlled "law (of love) abiders" can remain free. The "lawless" who insist on harming their neighbor will, of necessity, have to be externally-controlled in various ways, ie: /locked up/punished/executed.

13 posted on 08/05/2005 10:24:46 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law overarching rulers and ruled alike)
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To: Studebaker Hawk

You may want to try and find a way to negate the implications of C.S. Lewis writes, here, too.bttt :)

I. The Law of General Beneficence

(A) Negative

"I have not slain men." (Ancient Egyptian. From the Confession of the Righteous Soul, "Book of the Dead." v. Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics [=ERE], vol. v, p. 478)
"Do not murder." (Ancient Jewish. Exodus xx. 13.)
"Terrify not men or God will terrify thee." (Ancient Egyptian. Precepts of Ptahhetep. H. R. Hall, Ancient History of Near East, p.133 n.)
"In Nastrond (= Hell) I saw . . . murderers." (Old Norse. Volospá 38, 39.)
"I have not brought misery upon my fellows. I have not made the beginning of very day laborious in the sight of him who worked for me." (Ancient Egyptian. Confession of a Righteous Soul. ERE v. 478)
"I have not been grasping." (Ancient Egyptian. Ibid.)
"Who meditates oppression, his dwelling is overturned." (Babylonian. Hymn to Samas. ERE v. 455.)
"He who is cruel and calumnious has the character of a cat." (Hindu. Laws of Manu. Janet, Histoire de la Science Politique, vol. i, p. 6.)
"Slander not." (Babylonian. Hymn to Samas. ERE v.445.)
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." (Ancient Jewish. Exodus xx. 16.)
"Utter not a word by which anyone could be wounded." (Hindu. Janet, p.7.)
"Has he…driven an honest man from his family? Broken up a well cemented clan? (Babylonian. List of Sins from incantation tablets. ERE v. 466.)
"I have not caused hunger. I have not caused weeping." (Ancient Egyptian. ERE v.478.)
"Never do to others what you would not like them to do you." (Ancient Chinese. Analects of Confucisus, trans. A. Waley, xv.23; cf. Xii. 2.)
"Thou shalt not hate thy brother in they heart." (Ancient Jewish. Leviticus xix. 17.)
"He whose heart is in the smallest degree set upon goodness will dislike no one." (Ancient Chinese. Analects, iv. 4.)

(A) Positive

"Nature urges that a man should wish human society to exist and should wish to enter it." (roman. Cicero, De Officiis, I. Iv.)
"By the fundamental Law of Nature Man [is] to be preserved as much as possible." (Locke, Treatises of Civil Govt. ii. 3.)
"When the people have multiplied, what next should be done for them? The Master said, Enrish them. Jan Ch'iu said, When one has enriched them, what next should be done for them? The Master said, Instruct them." (Ancient Chinese. Analects, xiii 9.)
"Speak kindness…show good will." (Babylonian. Hymn to Samas. ERE v. 445.)
"Men were brought into existence for the sake of men that they might do one another good." (Roman. Cicero, De Off. I. Vii.)
"Man is man's delight." (Old Norse. Hávamál 47.)
"He who is asked for alms should always give." (Hindu. Janet, i. 7.)
"What good man regards any misfortune as no concern of his?" (Roman. Juvenal, xv. 140.)
"I am a man: nothing human is alien to me." (roman. Terence, Heaut. Tim.)
"Love thy neighbour as thyself." (Ancient Jewish. Leviticus xix 18.)
"Love the stranger as thyself." (Ancient Jewish. Ibid. 33, 34)
"Do to men what you wish men to do to you." (Christian. Matt. Vii. 12.)

http://www.stcharleschurch.org/cya/lewis.htm


14 posted on 08/05/2005 10:28:20 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law overarching rulers and ruled alike)
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To: Matchett-PI

42


15 posted on 08/05/2005 11:24:37 AM PDT by GingisK
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To: GingisK
?
16 posted on 08/05/2005 11:32:53 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law overarching rulers and ruled alike)
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To: wallcrawlr

ping


17 posted on 08/05/2005 1:08:30 PM PDT by plain talk
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To: Matchett-PI

Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy


18 posted on 08/05/2005 7:08:47 PM PDT by GingisK
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To: GingisK

OK. :)


19 posted on 08/05/2005 9:02:09 PM PDT by Matchett-PI (The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law overarching rulers and ruled alike)
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bookmark


20 posted on 11/02/2013 7:36:59 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (It's a single step from relativism to barbarism, low information to Democrat, ignorance to tenure)
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