Posted on 06/08/2005 4:41:38 AM PDT by echoBoomer
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - An Israeli researcher has challenged the popular belief that Jesus died of blood loss on the cross, saying he probably succumbed to a sometimes fatal disorder now associated with long-haul air travel.
Professor Benjamin Brenner wrote in The Journal of Thrombosis and Haemostasis that Jesus's death, traditionally believed to have occurred 3-6 hours after crucifixion began, was probably caused by a blood clot that reached his lungs.
Such pulmonary embolisms, leading to sudden death, can stem from immobilisation, multiple trauma and dehydration, said Brenner, a researcher at Rambam Medical Center in Haifa.
"This fits well with Jesus's condition and actually was in all likelihood the major cause of death by crucifixion," he wrote in the article, based on religious and medical texts.
A 1986 study in the Journal of the American Medical Association mentioned the possibility that Jesus suffered a blood clot but concluded that he died of blood loss.
But Brenner said research into blood coagulation had made significant strides over the past two decades.
He said recent medical research has linked immobility among passengers on lengthy air flights to deep vein thrombosis, popularly known as "economy-class syndrome" in which potentially fatal blood clots can develop, usually in the lower legs.
Brenner noted that before crucifixion, Jesus underwent scourging, but the researcher concluded that "the amount of blood loss by itself" would not have killed him.
He said that Jesus, as a Jew from what is now northern Israel, may have been particular at risk to a fatal blood clot.
Thrombophilia, a rare condition in which blood has an increased tendency to clot, is common to natives of the Galilee, the researcher wrote.
© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.
I've got no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is a few of them trying to ram it down my throat. On weekends, we get Jehovah's Witness and Mormon missionaries knocking on the doors. My dad found the Baptist church a few years ago, and we're still trying to shut him up. Likewise, a guy I work with is a stone atheist/radical liberal who took his current job because he can't earn commission selling his wares because he can't keep his mouth shut.
I don't think I need to "find God", because he's still where he's always been, right up there in Heaven.
Amen. I wish more Calvinists would admit as such. They constantly hold up the "God is absolutely sovereign" facet as if it were the entire truth.
The truth is larger than this one facet.
God gets what He wants and what we do matters.
SD
Oh so you're a Calvanist? Isn't that cute. I didn't realize there were any left.
I wasn't responding to you specifically, and I was more or less making something of a joke in reference to what people said about Terry Schiavo.
While I appreciate your condecension, there are quite a bit on FR, actually. You should see the Great Reformed Ping List.
Have they been successful?
On weekends, we get Jehovah's Witness and Mormon missionaries knocking on the doors.
I just tell them I'm not interested, like with any sales pitch. I have yet to meet a violent one or even argumentative one. No one has to listen.
My dad found the Baptist church a few years ago, and we're still trying to shut him up.
Have you tried telling him you aren't interested and asking him to please refrain from proselytizing to you?
That works most of the time, and if it doesn't work with your dad, try this, tell him if he is so worried about your spiritual life he should talk to God about you, not talk to you about God.
If that doesn't help there may be a problem with the relationship which goes deeper than the Baptist Church.
Likewise, a guy I work with is a stone atheist/radical liberal who took his current job because he can't earn commission selling his wares because he can't keep his mouth shut.
I guess he's a slow learner. Most liberals are.
I don't think I need to "find God", because he's still where he's always been, right up there in Heaven.
Actually, I think he's right here. And he is reaching out to you. But your mileage may vary. :^}
This is why I love FR! It's like a museum and a zoo all in one!
Verse 12 doesn't say everyone has the Spirit. That is limited in context to believers.
Sez you.
Did Charles Manson have the spirit of God during his murders?
The Holy Spirit just doesn't go to anybody.
LOL! Glad to see you here. I can't stay --- moving van is here and they're about finished and I need to get my nails done from all that packing...lol.
See if you can round up some more ammo for our "tri-fession" on Saturday! I am seriously going to another parish. :-#
We might have to invite Petronski too.
Now either the Word of GOD (Bible) is errant or one of our interpretations is. Either GOD predestined all to be saved by providing THE WAY that they may be saved (believing/trusting in HIS SON)or GOD predetermined and preselected who would be saved beforehand with no chance of changing HIS decision.
GOD has provided THE WAY through which all might be saved, but all have the volition of free will to choose/accept/reject that predestined way of being saved. Read in it's whole, the Bible clearly indicates that GOD is merciful and desires all to be saved not predetermined and preselected on a person to person basis. Granted, GOD is omniscient and omnipresent, and so is not bound by time or lack of knowledge. HE knows who will be saved and who will not, but this is not the same as saying he predetermined/preselected/predestined who will be and who won't be saved.
Galatians 1:6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
i never thought it was popular belief that Jesus died of "blood loss..." that he died on the cross?--yes... but because of blood loss? who thinks that?
Sometimes all I can say is wow.
Do you know man is so flawed that he can REJECT the Spirit?
Was the Spirit ever in Manson at all?
You're basing your thinking on the idea that what we do matters. To the Calvinist, one can no more reject the Spirit (I stands for "Irresistable grace") than a rooster can not crow at dawn.
SD
That idea of being saved reminds me of Seuss's "Star Bellied Sneeches." The select get a great shirt with a star on the front....like some kind of spiritual caste system.
"And none shall be saved without stars upon thars."
I thought 1 Timothy 2 would be mentioned.
I already dealt with this one.
The "all" means "all kinds of men." Look at the beginning of the chapter. The prayers are to be made for all kinds of people: the lowly and the powerful.
That context continues through the rest of this verse. God desires all kinds of people to be saved. He gave himself as a ransom for all kinds of people.
Note that elsewhere he is said to be a ransom for MANY, not all.
And Scripture consistently says that God's will, his desire, can't be thwarted.
Therefore, if God is God, and he actually wanted all saved, he would git 'r done.
He hasn't.
Only if I was predestined to be invited, and not if I was not.
No, the Spirit was never in Manson.
You do realize that in Christian theology, and this is not just Calvinists, it only indwells Christians, right?
This isn't a tough one, nor a controversial issue.
The Spirit only comes to indwell believers. You only are choosing to assert othwerwise now because you know to say otherwise would destroy your position.
Riiiiiight.
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