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Were Chinese here first? (china; menzies; 1421)
NewsAdvance.com ^ | May 15, 2005 | Shannon Brennan

Posted on 05/16/2005 3:35:42 AM PDT by SteveH

Were Chinese here first?

Shannon Brennan / sbrennan@newsadvance.com

May 15, 2005

Charlotte Rees is heiress to evidence that could turn world history upside down - if she can corroborate it.

She and her six siblings inherited maps from their father, a third-generation missionary born in China, that she says may show the Chinese had discovered America - and the rest of the world - as early as 2200 B.C.

“I’m ready for opposition,” said Rees, who lives in Forest. “Even when Columbus was saying the world was round, he had opposition.”

Rees, 59, will propound her theory Monday at a symposium at the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C., on Zheng He, an early Chinese explorer.

In addition to the maps, which depict lands that she argues could be North and South America, Rees says there is other evidence of a Chinese presence more than 3,700 years before Columbus set foot here.

Rees’ maps are actually Korean and date to the 16th century, but she believes they are replicas of Chinese maps dating to 2200 B.C.

John Hebert, chief of the Library of Congress’ Geography and Map Division, said the library has similar maps in its possession.

“She’s still trying to find out more completely what she has,” Hebert said. “… Her interpretations beyond that are her business.”

Hebert said there’s no doubt other seafaring explorers beat Columbus to this continent. There’s documented proof that the Vikings were in Labrador and Newfoundland about 1000 A.D. Hebert said once there is unquestionable proof that history needs rewriting, he’s all for it.

“That’s the stimulating thing about history,” he said.

Rees is hardly the first to propose that the Chinese predated Columbus on American soil. In 2002, retired British Royal Navy Capt. Gavin Menzies published a controversial book titled, “1421: The Year China Discovered America.”

Menzies has many detractors, including Hebert, who said the book represents “fairly shoddy research.”

Nonetheless, Menzies is one of the participants in the Library of Congress symposium. Rees met Menzies last year after contacting him about her maps and research. She said she told him, “You’re putting too much history in too short of a time.”

In 1421, for example, the Chinese already had five-story sailing vessels. Rees argues they must have started with much smaller vessels long before.

Rees said Menzies has been both receptive to her work and helpful with her efforts to get a publisher, and acknowledges he might not have the complete story.

“Menzies told me he didn’t think there’s a chance in a million my father is wrong,” she said.

Contacted by e-mail, Menzies said he does believe the maps show that the Chinese knew of the whole world by 2200 B.C.

“Mrs. Rees contacted me in early 2003 shortly after my book was published,” Menzies wrote. “At the time I was under heavy attack by critics and her father’s maps were an unwelcome distraction.”

Since then, however, Menzies said, he has been overwhelmed with e-mails to his Web site, which made him realize he had oversimplified how America was populated by East Asians who came by sea.

“The Harris collection of maps will, in the long run, cause an even more fundamental and agonizing (sic) reappraisal of American history than my book has,” he wrote.

Rees said her purpose is to further the work of her father, who bought the books of maps in 1972 at an antique store in Seoul, South Korea.

Hendon Harris, a third-generation missionary, was born in China in 1916. He later became a Baptist missionary himself. Rees spent several of her formative years in Taiwan.

Harris, who could read and speak Chinese, realized the maps in his collection matched descriptions in the Shan Hai Jing, the Classic of Mountains and Seas that describes early Chinese explorations by the first real Chinese emperor, Yu, in about 2200 B.C.

“He sent teams out to the ends of the Earth,” Rees said of Yu.

In 1975, Harris’ book, “The Asiatic Fathers of America,” was published in Taiwan. He claimed the Chinese discovered America between 2650 and 2200 B.C.

Harris died unexpectedly of a stroke in 1981 at age 64, and his book hadn’t gotten much attention. In fact, one of Rees’ sisters didn’t know what to do with 1,600 leftover copies, and she finally sold them for $1 apiece. Rees wishes they had them back. She recently found a copy on the Internet for $150. Word about Harris’ book and maps is getting out.

After Harris’ death, the maps ended up with Rees’ brother, Hendon, who kept them under his bed in California until 2003, when Rees decided it was time the family did something with them.

She and her husband, David, had retired in 2002, and she felt she finally had time to devote to her father’s work. Rees said any of her siblings would have been as well or better qualified to pursue her father’s work. But she was the one with the time.

“I didn’t realize the amount of time it would be either,” she said, adding she has spent countless hours in the Forest Library, where she said she can order almost any book she needs from around the country.

The Harris maps went straight from California to the Library of Congress, where they will remain for the foreseeable future. Rees said they are too valuable for her to keep at home. The maps are not on public display, but PBS is planning to do a special on the symposium, Rees said.

Rees knows she will have a difficult job convincing the world that the Chinese were here by 2200 B.C. The Chinese themselves have long believed that Shan Hai Jing was largely mythical, Rees said, but they also acknowledge that myth and fact were often merged.

“If it didn’t contain mythology, it would be suspect,” she said.

Rees has found support for her theory in the academic world - from Beijing to Wake Forest.

Cyclone Covey, professor emeritus of history at Wake Forest University, said if the maps are authenticated, they could prove what many, including himself, believe.

“(The Chinese) were familiar with America and down to Central America at least,” Covey said in a telephone interview. “… Charlotte realizes the Chinese were here before 1421.”

Covey said the Shan Hai Jing provided incredible detail about geographic formations and distances.

“Her father’s map … seems to be a copy of the original that came with the Shan Hai Jing,” Covey said.

There are some differences between the Shan Hai Jing and the Harris maps, which include writing in Korean and Japanese, he said, but those inscriptions were likely added to the maps later.

Those differences, however, are what Hebert said need to be thoroughly researched.

The Harris maps were written in classical Chinese, Rees said. A professor in Beijing has dated the maps to the Ming Dynasty, around the late 1500s. About 72 percent of the place names are the same as those in the Shan Hai Jing, she said.

Some of the descriptions don’t seem mythical.

“The maps show what Father believed was the Grand Canyon and Mt. McKinley,” Rees said.

The maps indicate the Bright Chasm Mountains roughly where Arizona is now and the Measuring Skies Mountain in Alaska, she said.

Her maps and the Shan Hai Jing aren’t the only evidence of a Chinese presence in America, Rees said.

Chinese writing by Tong Fan Tso, in the third century B.C., describes a continent about 10,000 li or 3,300 miles wide, bounded by vast oceans, with huge trees. The Chinese called it Fu Sang, “The Land of the East.”

If these discoveries occurred, how did the Chinese lose track of them? Rees said China shut down not long after the voyages of Zheng He, the admiral who is the subject of the Library of Congress symposium.

The Chinese burned maps and made it a capital offense to go to sea, she said.

“There are periods of time when people lose knowledge,” Rees said, citing the Dark Ages as an example in Western history.

Zheng He was a Chinese explorer and major figure in the history of navigation, who undertook a series of expeditions between 1405 and 1433. With a fleet of 200 ships and a crew of 28,000 men, his voyages are considered the largest maritime expeditions in world history.

Hebert said there is no evidence that Zheng He made it to America, only to the Indian Ocean and the East African coast.

Whether Zheng He sailed to America, Rees points to evidence that one-quarter million Chinese went to sea about 1100 B.C. at the end of the Shang Dynasty, and most never came back. If you look at Olmec writing, some of the characters seem virtually identical to Chinese. She said she believes the Olmec - the ancient people of Mexico - were Chinese.

Rees has also found ancient descriptions of animals that sound like the opossum, coyote, peccary, armadillo and bald eagle - animals found only in America.

“How could they have known all this if they weren’t here?” Rees asked.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; US: District of Columbia; US: North Carolina; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: 1421; archaeology; china; dna; gavinmenzies; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; menzies; migration; navigation
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To: SteveH
Did they arrive by the 'Sea of China'?

41 posted on 05/16/2005 7:22:25 AM PDT by evets (God bless President Bush and VP Cheney)
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To: All

The world is flat.

You Art Bell types need to change your foil hats.


42 posted on 05/16/2005 7:23:51 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar (The noisiest people in the libraries these days are the librarians. (battlegearboat))
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To: Nathan Zachary

Here are some books.

Four Winds Food Specialists. 1998. Population Profile: Cherokee Indians. Fork, Fingers, and Chopsticks. II(2):3-6. [food habits; North American Indians; Cherokee]

Four Winds Food Specialists. 1997. Population Profile: Asian Indian-americans. Fork, Fingers, & Chopsticks. I(2):3-6. [food habits; North America; United States; Asian Indian immigrants]

Four Winds Food Specialists. 2001. Population Profile: Dakota Indians. Fork, Fingers, & Chopsticks. V(1):3-6. [foodways; diet; North American Indians; Dakota]


43 posted on 05/16/2005 7:24:05 AM PDT by CJ Wolf (You thought I was joking.)
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To: Jet Jaguar

You are right, if you're taking Muhammad's (Allah's) word for it.


44 posted on 05/16/2005 7:27:41 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: SpaceBar

Somebody else pointed out that there are structural limitation to wooden hulls that make Zheng He's ocean-liner sized junks kinda unlikely. Somthing about "hogging" - the way the keel bends from too much weight along too great a length.


45 posted on 05/16/2005 7:29:02 AM PDT by Little Ray (I'm a reactionary, hirsute, gun-owning, knuckle dragging, Christian Neanderthal and proud of it!)
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To: Nathan Zachary
http://car.utsa.edu/prehistoricrecipes.htm

"Afterwards, the cooking rocks were lifted out of the fire one at a time, using large sticks made of young cedar or oak saplings which resembled oversized chopsticks."

Off course everything is bigger in texas. But really it's such ancient history I think it's all speculation at this point. The fork really took off after 1492.

46 posted on 05/16/2005 7:35:12 AM PDT by CJ Wolf
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To: CJ Wolf
It only makes sense that Indians would have used sticks of sorts for eating tools. A self learned thing. it's a bit of a stretch to say they it was brought over from Chinese ancestry.
Your probably right leaving it to mere speculation. Little Ray- The Chinese weren't known for their ship building capabilities. I think I read something somewhere that mentioned they were somewhat fearful of the sea. I'll probably figure out where after the thread dies...
47 posted on 05/16/2005 7:46:33 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
There are too many good old maps pre-1500 showing the Americas, Antarctica, and Australia,

LOL. Yeah, like the Piri Rees map.
48 posted on 05/16/2005 8:15:15 AM PDT by BJClinton (Giuliani/DeLay 2008)
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To: SpaceBar
In her book, Gods from the Far East: How the Chinese discovered America, Henriette Mertz also lays out this theory. She contended that there were regular tours from China to this continent, that caches of sandals had been planted for the tourists to re-shoe on their journeys to the Grand Canyon and other places.

One of the bases for her theories was that written stores--previously considered "wonder stories," had specific distances recorded in li's [Chinese distance measurements] that, she said, could not place these occupancies in China.

The title of her book apparently capitalized on the titles of Von Daniken's book, Chariot of the Gods. Was an interesting theory at the time.
49 posted on 05/16/2005 8:27:13 AM PDT by righttackle44 (The most dangerous weapon in the world is a Marine with his rifle and the American people behind him)
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To: righttackle44
In her book, Gods from the Far East: How the Chinese discovered America ...... Von Daniken's book, Chariot of the Gods.

Once and for all, the Goa'uld are false gods!!!

50 posted on 05/16/2005 8:38:06 AM PDT by JohnnyZ (“When you’re hungry, you eat; when you’re a frog, you leap; if you’re scared, get a dog.”)
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To: Nathan Zachary
Ok..now does this mean the indians need to pay reparations to the chinese? Or the Indians need to give casino income to the chinese? Are we white folk off the hook then? Sorry just couldn't help myself...;)
51 posted on 05/16/2005 8:42:18 AM PDT by Tess1 (United We Stand, Divided We Fall)
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To: JohnnyZ

"Once and for all, the Goa'uld are false gods!!!"

Are you blaming me for her title? Or didn't you
get your coffee this morning?


52 posted on 05/16/2005 9:01:22 AM PDT by righttackle44 (The most dangerous weapon in the world is a Marine with his rifle and the American people behind him)
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To: righttackle44

Ummm ........ do you know what the Goa'uld are?


53 posted on 05/16/2005 9:05:06 AM PDT by JohnnyZ (“When you’re hungry, you eat; when you’re a frog, you leap; if you’re scared, get a dog.”)
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To: JohnnyZ

"Ummm ........ do you know what the Goa'uld are?"

Have no idea. Don't care. I was just contributing
a comment about something I'd read previously.
You need a good dose of prune juice this morning?


54 posted on 05/16/2005 9:07:59 AM PDT by righttackle44 (The most dangerous weapon in the world is a Marine with his rifle and the American people behind him)
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To: righttackle44
Well, if you knew what the Goa'uld were, you would have gotten the joke. As it was, you didn't get it, and decided to start insulting me for having the temerity to quote from your post in a fashion that you did not comprehend.
55 posted on 05/16/2005 9:29:30 AM PDT by JohnnyZ (“When you’re hungry, you eat; when you’re a frog, you leap; if you’re scared, get a dog.”)
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To: JohnnyZ

Sorry if I misunderstood you.

I wasn't looking to get into a
fight with anyone when I simply
posted a comment.


56 posted on 05/16/2005 10:07:04 AM PDT by righttackle44 (The most dangerous weapon in the world is a Marine with his rifle and the American people behind him)
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To: Nathan Zachary
"The sea water isn't raising, it's plate movement as the earth maintains it's globe shape."

There may be some contribution from this effect at some tectonic plate locations, but the evidence for the rise in sea level covers the entire globe, and encompasses ALL the tectonic plates that border on the ocean. Evidence is the continuation of various river beds and flood-plain valleys submerged under hundreds of feet of water as sub-sea "continuations" of major rivers.

There are maps availabe that show what would have been the shorelines during various earlier geological time periods. I don't know if any of'em are available on-line, but I've seen several over the years.

57 posted on 05/17/2005 7:11:20 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

Please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest
-- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

58 posted on 07/21/2005 10:48:19 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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When China Ruled the Seas: The Treasure Fleet of the Dragon Throne, 1405-1433 by Louise Levathes

59 posted on 07/21/2005 10:49:26 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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To: WoofDog123
Actually, it was found that human programs are recorded in Shan Hai Jing or "The Classic of Mountains and Seas". Also, it was found that "I Ching" and "Tao Te Ching" are commentaries to "Shan Hai Jing". Scientists discovered that the great Leonardo da Vinci was correct in his assumptions - humans ARE biorobots. Every person gets a program at birth. No human is able to deviate from this individual program. Anybody can be manipulated by the use of certain set programs. The question, “What is the soul?” has been answered. For additional information visit Catalog of Human Population
60 posted on 01/04/2011 3:27:34 PM PST by KateBazilevsky (Shan Hai Jing is the Catalog of human population)
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