Posted on 05/14/2005 8:42:05 AM PDT by SheLion
Firing Smokers - Reading Beyond the Headlines
Trend: You smoke? You're fired!
May 11, 2005
By Stephanie Armour
More companies are taking action against employees who smoke off-duty, and, in an extreme trend that some call troubling, some are now firing or banning the hiring of workers who light up even on their own time.
The outright bans raise new questions about how far companies can go in regulating workers' behavior when they are off the clock. The crackdown is coming in part as a way to curb soaring health care costs, but critics say companies are violating workers' privacy rights. The zero-tolerance policies are coming as more companies adopt smoke-free workplaces.
•Weyco, a medical benefits provider based in Okemos, Mich., this year banned employees from smoking on their own time. Employees must submit to random tests that detect if someone has smoked. They must also agree to searches of briefcases, purses or other belongings if company officials suspect tobacco or other banned substances have been brought on-site. Those who smoke may be suspended or fired.
About 20 employees have quit smoking under the policy, and a handful were fired after they opted out of the testing. "The main goal is to elevate the health status of our employees," says Gary Climes, chief financial officer.
•At Investors Property Management in Seattle, smokers are not hired. Employees who smoked before the ban was passed about two years ago are not fired; however, they can't get medical insurance through the company.
•Alaska Airlines has a no-smoking policy for employees, and new hires must submit to a urine test to prove they're tobacco-free.
"The debate has gone from where they can smoke to whether they can smoke," says Marshall Tanick, a Minneapolis-based employment lawyer.
Such bans are not legal everywhere: More than 20 states have passed laws that bar companies from discriminating against workers for lifestyle decisions.
There are other ways that companies are taking action against off-duty smoking, such as raising health care premiums for smokers.
Employers say it's about creating a healthy workforce. But it's also a bottom-line issue: Tobacco causes more than 440,000 deaths annually and results in more than $75 billion in direct medical costs a year, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Some smokers' rights groups are vowing legal action.
"These matters will be decided in the courts," says Redmond, Wash.-based Norman Kjono, with Forces, a smokers' rights group. "You're creating a class of unemployable citizens. It won't stand."
And legal experts fear companies will try to control other aspects of employees' off-duty lifestyle, a trend that is already happening. Some companies are firing, suspending or charging higher insurance premiums to workers who are overweight, have high cholesterol or participate in risky activities.
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!
My husband totally blows that study and it's theories out the window--he drives me crazy when he is talking on the cell phone and eating a sandwich while driving at 65 on the highway.
Because unlike you anti-smokers we see the handwriting on the walls. The majority of us support his right to make such idiotic policy but we are trying to open up the eyes of people like you to realize that it will not stop with smokers.
Anyone who is supporting government mandated smoking bans on private businesses should be screaming for laws to prohibit other employers from making these type policies. But they don't, they support this guy's decision because "it's just smokers" and it's his business so he has the right.........they are the hypocrites.
YUP!!!!!
I can argue either side of a proposal to make the practice illegal, because I have done so. I used to firmly believe an employer shouldn't be able to do what these companies are doing, but eventually realized that was totally inconsitent with my stand against smoking bans and business decisions made by private businesses and so will no longer support such proposals.
I loved to get the antis sputtering by showing them a mock help wanted ad for "Smokers Only" when they were fighting against the "legal activity outside workplace" discrimination law. They claimed that was not fair - yet when I showed the actual ads from the local newspapers for "Smokers need not apply" they claimed that was alright because the business shouldn't have to hire people who did things the owner didn't like. I could never understand that twisted logic.
"But it's also a bottom-line issue: Tobacco causes more than 440,000 deaths annually and results in more than $75 billion in direct medical costs a year, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Preventio"
That is exactly my position on this entire issue.
Someday soon, we all hope that you and Mrs. Pecksniff will be able to walk or take public transportation to McTacoBees (America's ONLY restaurant), where you will be able to enjoy your choice of a variety of delicious overpriced tofu-based entrees, along with selected alcohol-free adult beverages, followed by a sugar-free, fat-free, non-dairy dessert, all served by cheerful government employees in a smoke-and-scent-free environment.
McTacoBees provides an adjacent facility for your mandatory post-prandial calesthenics.
The stress of loss of a job has as much of an adverse affect on health as smoking. Wanna bet that this NAZI company keeps the pressure (stress) up on it's employees to keep costs down.
Honest to God, this Weyco Employer looks like a dried up old prune. I couldn't stand working for him especially if I had to 'look' at him.
So do I! It's lucky I don't drink. I would have to get plastered to get through some of these threads.
This thread alone has enough good posts to make the anti-smoking taliban wish they had panties on their heads instead.
ROFL!!!!!!!!!! I had to clean my monitor before I could respond!!!!!
BTW - I'm cooking elk for supper tomorrow :)
ROFL!!! I do drink, but there is not enough beer in the world to get me plastered enough to get through some of these threads!!!!
You folks have been carrying the load so long, I just felt obligated.
You are correct - this has been one of the better threads relating to this stupidity in a while.
Thanks for joining in - it can actually be a whole heck of a lot of fun at times!!!!!
This has got to be the funniest thing I have read concerning Kentucky law since I read the one - still on the books about "Horses must be given the right of way on any street road, etc..."(which, by the way is a pretty good one I think because I do live Horses) - But come on!
I PROMISE you - there is not ONE police officer in rural Kentucky who will enforce this portion of the Kentucky Tobacco Law.
Then we have this section - "It is not a violation for a person to accept receipt of a tobacco product from a family member or from an employer when required to do so in the course of employment."
First, what company does anyone know of that would force someone to accept a Tobacco product? Secondly, because of the 'we card' program, it has only caused family members ( more likely, friends) to SUPPLY teenagers with Tobacco, and MOST of the stores I frequent do not ask for an I.D. anyway. We are talking about a mostly rural state, where the poverty line is very high, and to be honest - the stress caused from being out of work most of the time is enough to keep them smoking anyway!
Now - the flip side. As a Nutritional Consultant, I know what the effects from Tobacco will do to my body. But, because I began smoking when I was 12 years old, when anybody could buy a pack and they were 40 something cents - I am battling this last addiction as a 38 year old adult. I am winning, but it is a hard addiction to break. Some people can lay them down - I am not one of those people.
Yes, smoking is harmful to your health. But the American Cancer Society, and other groups need to take in to consideration a few things. Tobacco is a LEGAL substance. If you are over the age of 18, you should be allowed to make your own decisions. We are supposed to be Free, right?
And,even though this is something which does cause harmful effects - why are they not raising the taxes or banning alcohol? How many highway deaths can be attributed to nicotine in someone's system? Why are they not breathing down the necks of the food suppliers, pumping our food full of chemicals. I can produce enough statistics on THAT subject to make your head spin! Chemicals in food water and the air are the targets they should go after. But why don't they - they KNOW they cannot win. Yet they continue to go after Tobacco, as though it is satan himself, and allow the alcohol and chemicals to pour freely - everyday.
These are the things I DO favor in regulating Tobacco:
1. No Sales to minors
2. Non-smoking sections in restaraunts, or no inside smoking at all. Smoking in outdoor dining areas should be allowed.
3. TRUE education to the poorer citizens who have know idea what COPD stands for.
4. A SLIGHTLY higher Insurance premium - rather,a break for NON-smokers.
Alcohol and the Food Industry is not under attack because the Lobbyists are louder and have more backing from big business. Prohibition was attempted, and failed.
Some things in this world have to be left up to individuals when it comes to their own bodies. If they are given the facts, have weighed them out and made an educated decision to smoke - then it is their right. Until Tobacco becomes an illegal substance, this should not even be an issue.
If I went to a company, considering a position and they told me I was not allowed to smoke on MY TIME - OFF THE CLOCK - I would politely say 'thank you for your time' and walk out the door.
It is time the American Public wakes up and discovers the TRUTH about the conspiracy surrounding certain markets, products,the Health Industry and Big Business, and FIGHT BACK! WE are NOT TOLD THE TRUTH! The FDA DOES NOT care about what is in food products, over the counter drugs, or soft drinks unless someone is seriously injured or dies. Even then, certain products are allowed to stay on the market. (reference an archived post regarding lead found in Childrens vitamins.) But - because so many do not care - or are so static in their traditions, I fear this will never happen.
This is a subject I am passionate about because it is ONE MORE WAY to attempt to control society. Some things MUST be controlled, some things MUST be regulated, some things MUST be deemed illegal and kept from society. But taking away my right as an American to smoke, is like taking away my right as an American to own a gun. Some things are sacred and need to be left ALONE. Period.
What sort of regulations do you favor for cheeseburgers? That's next.
What sort of regulations do you favor for cheeseburgers? That's next.
Employers will force their employees to have cholesterol tests and BMI tests. Any applicant whose cholesterol tests and/or BMI tests are over the acceptable levels will be disqualified, and current employees whose cholesterol tests and/or BMI tests are over the acceptable levels will be automatically fired.
Employees who get one single traffic ticket (including seat belt violations) during their course of employment will be automatically fired.
Employees who watch Fox News Channel will be automatically fired.
It will get worse...and it will never get any better. Little by little we are losing our rights, and pretty soon we will have NO rights whatsoever. Once those rights are lost, they will be lost forever.
Refusing to hire Christians will get the company shut down in a heartbeat...either by the labor board or by the community.
I shudder to think of a possible future fascist police state who could declare that "only healthy people will be allowed to live" and by using genetic testing, anybody who is genetically susceptible of getting sick will be arrested, transported to a concentration camp, and executed.
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