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Lab fireball 'may be black hole'
BBC News ^ | 3/17/2005

Posted on 03/17/2005 12:59:33 PM PST by flashbunny

Lab fireball 'may be black hole'

A fireball created in a US particle accelerator has the characteristics of a black hole, a physicist has said.

It was generated at the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC) in New York, US, which smashes beams of gold nuclei together at near light speeds.

Horatiu Nastase says his calculations show that the core of the fireball has a striking similarity to a black hole.

His work has been published on the pre-print website arxiv.org and is reported in New Scientist magazine.

When the gold nuclei smash into each other they are broken down into particles called quarks and gluons.

These form a ball of plasma about 300 times hotter than the surface of the Sun. This fireball, which lasts just 10 million, billion, billionths of a second, can be detected because it absorbs jets of particles produced by the beam collisions.

But Nastase, of Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island, says there is something unusual about it.

Ten times as many jets were being absorbed by the fireball as were predicted by calculations.

The Brown researcher thinks the particles are disappearing into the fireball's core and reappearing as thermal radiation, just as matter is thought to fall into a black hole and come out as "Hawking" radiation.

However, even if the ball of plasma is a black hole, it is not thought to pose a threat. At these energies and distances, gravity is not the dominant force in a black hole.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: blackhole; physics; science
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To: FierceDraka

Did you ever read "The Day the Earth Froze"?....Scientists made a bomb from anti-matter and it threw us into an ice age.


141 posted on 03/17/2005 8:16:48 PM PST by TheLion
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To: Bigh4u2
How'd you get 'days' out of 'billionths of a second'??

The line was "ten million billion billionths". The billion and billionths cancel each other leaving 10 million seconds. 10 million seconds divided by 86400 seconds per day yields 115.74 days.

142 posted on 03/17/2005 8:23:40 PM PST by reg45
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To: 2banana

"some missing socks..."

Find those gluons and you'll find your socks!


143 posted on 03/17/2005 8:34:09 PM PST by Domestic Church (AMDG.....)
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To: mhking

bttt


144 posted on 03/17/2005 10:48:18 PM PST by lainde
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To: DoctorMichael
Better to be safe than sorry.

Gee, I guess that means we better be funding studies to determine what will happen if gravity just, y'know, like stops all the sudden and we all fly off into space. That would be, like, a bummer, y'know?

You can advocate any studies you want, of course, and I support your right to do so. But rapid changes in the fundamental characteristics of the universe - at a macro level - are not high on my list of things to worry about.
145 posted on 03/18/2005 5:15:58 AM PST by Gorjus
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To: TheLion
How do you get days out of billionths of a second?

Read the line the way it was written. A billion billionths= 1. Ten million times 1 second is how many days. There are 86400 seconds in one day.

Some people do not read the words that are printed on the page but rather what they think the writer must have meant.

146 posted on 03/18/2005 6:08:38 AM PST by ThanhPhero (di hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: Gorjus
That would be, like, a bummer, y'know?

Thats just the kind of answer I expected from a moron like yourself.

Best of luck.

147 posted on 03/18/2005 6:11:30 AM PST by DoctorMichael (The Fourth Estate is a Fifth Column!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: 2banana

if you read the corresponding article and thread on http://www.fark.com, one of the actual participants in the study/project comments on the results of the study and the physics involved. very interesting stuff. the Users name on Fark is "BillCosby." I learned a lot. I think I did anyway. I went into communications when I realized it involved very little math.


148 posted on 03/18/2005 6:36:57 AM PST by timtoews5292004
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To: flashbunny

Well now there's a goddamn black hole where I used to drink beer.

My graduate studies were in nuclear physics, and I spent several summers back during the 80's at Long Island's Brookhaven National Laboratory. Back then, the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC) didn't exist yet. All there was at the site were some enormous empty tunnels, dug for a different accelerator project that never got off the ground. The tunnels stood as a monument to fiscal and bureaucratic incompetence and government boondoggles... but they looked really cool and spooky at night.

In short, it was the big make-out spot in those days. Or a place for drinking beer, if you were a physics geek with no girlfriend. I have many fond memories of hanging out by those huge empty holes on a summer night with my friends, watching the deer watching us, curiously from the tree line, and getting quietly drunk.


149 posted on 03/18/2005 7:11:02 AM PST by Cynical Nation
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To: DoctorMichael
Ah, the joys of learned discourse. Not that it will matter to you, of course, but the standard rule of thumb I've always followed is that the first person to go ad hominem loses any argument.

The short form of that is: Loser!

Have fun in your splendid ability to judge the mental capacity of those who have the effrontery to disagree with you. I'm sure it makes you lots of friends.
150 posted on 03/18/2005 8:02:55 AM PST by Gorjus
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To: ThanhPhero

If you "read the lines" you will see this was a fast reaction, not one for 115 days!


151 posted on 03/18/2005 8:56:35 AM PST by TheLion
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To: EvilOverlord

There is actually a book about this...can't remember the name. The CERN scientists created a tiny opening into another universe.

Cosm, by Gregory Benford I think, wrote about the creation of an entire universe at RHIC.


152 posted on 03/18/2005 9:04:04 AM PST by DBrow
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To: flashbunny

http://www.bnl.gov/rhic/disaster.htm

Says right here it's safe.


153 posted on 03/18/2005 9:06:05 AM PST by DBrow
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To: -YYZ-

"On the Borderland of Sol" by Larry Niven. You charge the hole using an ion rocket then use magnets and static E fields to move it about.

Then you use it to pirate nullspace ships, since of course a null drive cannot operate near a singularity.


154 posted on 03/18/2005 9:13:09 AM PST by DBrow
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To: TheLion

You are reading what you think you should sê, not what was written.


155 posted on 03/18/2005 1:52:02 PM PST by ThanhPhero (di hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: -YYZ-
The EH in straight GR is supposed to mean anything that crosses it can never escape. Hawking radiation leakage is that stuff escaping. So what's EH-ee about it? The kind of crossing events that can happen are limited. But they happen. Stuff beyond the EH and stuff outside are not in two separated universes. This is not the picture of a classic EH in pure GR alone. That is all that the previous poster meant, when he alluded to EHs not existing (as real EHs in the full classic GR-only sense).
156 posted on 03/18/2005 3:25:34 PM PST by JasonC
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To: JasonC

OK, right, I remember reading about that. But Hawking still doesn't believe any "information" can escape the black hole, right? Just one part of virtual particle pairs, ie Hawking radiation? Any normal energy/matter from outside the EH passing beyond the event horizon is still doomed, right? But once, and if, the whole universe ends up collapsing back into one big black whole (ie the big crunch), eventually given enough time, like many times the previous lifespan of the universe, assuming time has any further meaning at that point, it will eventually evaporate through Hawking radiation.

Pretty far-out stuff, maybe a little too far out for my limited mind to fully grasp.


157 posted on 03/18/2005 4:43:29 PM PST by -YYZ-
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To: -YYZ-
What comes out has to be maximum entropy for that amount of energy, because it is maximum entropy inside the BH. So it comes out (say the calculations, understand, nobody has ever actually seen this happen) as a black body type emission spectrum, but of matter rather than just radiation. Notice, since the rate of emission as a portion of the BH mass rises as the hole gets smaller, the last bits are a runaway evaporation. More and more matter appears "outside", the hole radius shrinks, more so, more so, eventually you have a thermal emission spectrum particle jet and no hole left. That is why they call it "evaporation". You can think of this as newly created matter torned from the vaccum, but you can just as readily think of it as all the mass-energy of the hole converted into pure energy, and that energy converted to maximally disordered ordinary matter. So mass that goes in at one epoch, effectively comes out again later (gazillions later of the hole is solar mass or above, certainly), thoroughly "scrambled" as to composition etc.
158 posted on 03/18/2005 6:18:54 PM PST by JasonC
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To: -YYZ-

It is purgatory applied to matter rather than souls ;-)


159 posted on 03/18/2005 6:19:28 PM PST by JasonC
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To: EvilOverlord
Short version, it is Bush's fault.
160 posted on 03/18/2005 6:23:06 PM PST by razorback-bert (FR's spell checker thinks Freepers isn't a word)
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