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Cleopatra seduced the Romans with her irresistible . . . mind
The Times (U.K.) ^ | March 14, 2005 | Ben Hoyle

Posted on 03/15/2005 8:10:16 PM PST by nickcarraway

LONG before Shakespeare portrayed her as history’s most exotic femme fatale, Cleopatra was revered throughout the Arab world — for her brain.

Medieval Arab scholars never referred to the Egyptian queen’s appearance, and they made no mention of the dangerous sensuality which supposedly corrupted Julius Caesar and Mark Antony. Instead they marvelled at her intellectual accomplishments: from alchemy and medicine to philosophy, mathematics and town planning, a new book has claimed.

Even Elizabeth Taylor, who famously played the title role in the 1963 epic Cleopatra, would have struggled to inject sex appeal into this queen. Arab writers depict Cleopatra’s court as a place of intellectual seminars and scholarship rather than the more traditional vision of kohl-rimmed eyes and hedonistic intrigue.

“They admired her scientific knowledge and her administrative ability,” the book’s author Okasha el-Daly, who is based at the Petrie Museum of Egyptian Archaeology at University College London, said.

In Egyptology: The Missing Millennium he writes that “Arabic sources often refer to Cleopatra as ‘the virtuous scholar’ and cite scientific books written by her as the definitive works in their field”. She was also regarded as a great builder, he claims, responsible among other things for a canal to supply Alexandria with Nile water.

Cleopatra was born in 69BC, the last of the Greek Ptolemaic dynasty that ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great’s invasion in 332BC. The few images of her that survive suggest that she was not a great beauty by modern standards. Despite this she succeeded in seducing Caesar and his former ally Mark Antony, who left his Roman wife Octavia for her.

European scholars finally learned to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics in 1822 with the help of the Rosetta Stone. But Dr el-Daly believes that a ninth-century Arabian alchemist, Ibn Wahshiyah, got there first, opening up original Egyptian sources to medieval Arab writers.

“There has always been a snobbery which suggested that medieval Arab scholars only cared about science and engineering,” he said. “They wrote about everything they found interesting. I even found one medieval scholar who had written a book on sex.”

Kate Spence, a lecturer in Egyptology at Cambridge University’s Faculty of Oriental Studies, described Dr el-Daly’s work as very important.

“Everybody has known that these Arab sources were around for ages.” she said, “but most of us working in this field don’t know enough Arabic to use them properly.”


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ancientautopsies; arab; archaeology; cleopatra; cleopatravii; egypt; epigraphyandlanguage; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; history; juliuscaesar; markantony; romanempire
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To: Thinkin' Gal

61 posted on 03/15/2005 11:17:58 PM PST by Lijahsbubbe
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To: FYREDEUS
Maybe he just plain and simple Loved her eh?

Either that or her thong underwear that she wore around the Oval Office while he was awaiting intellectual inspiration to socialize health care from his co-Emperor. You know how powerful men can be!
62 posted on 03/15/2005 11:17:58 PM PST by The Great Yazoo (The husbands of wives who read their taglines sleep on the recliner downstairs.)
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To: The Great Yazoo

Hey dont dismiss the power of the Thong...a smart woman in a thong can be a wonderful thing...especially if she's had a Belgian bikini-wax [which I'm told is a Brazilian with a Belgian waffle afterwards as reward] LOL

Somehow I think Caesar and Cleopatra 'Part Deux' would have been more likely to have been invading Iraq together than socializing health care for the Plebians lol...;-)...

Next up reclaiming Alexanders empire then on to China...;-)...


63 posted on 03/15/2005 11:38:02 PM PST by FYREDEUS
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To: Salamander

Interesting link.


64 posted on 03/16/2005 12:32:50 AM PST by texasflower ("America's vital interests and our deepest beliefs are now one." President George W. Bush 01/20/05)
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To: FYREDEUS; The Great Yazoo; Salamander; All

"You like to dance on the hip hop spots
And you cruise to grooves to connect the dots
Not just urban she like the pop
'Cause she was Livin' La Vida Loca
She had dumps like a truck, truck, truck
Thighs like what, what, what
Baby move your butt, butt, butt
I think i'll sing it again
She had dumps like a truck, truck, truck
Thighs like what, what, what
All night long
Let me see that thong......."


What has once been so eloquently put, cannot be restated.


65 posted on 03/16/2005 2:48:06 AM PST by shibumi (You'd rather cry, I'd rather fly.)
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To: The Great Yazoo
"Did he mention that Cleopatra was black?"

She may or may not have been. The first Ptolomey was the half brother of Alexander the Great, a Macedonian. Macedonians would tend to look like northern Greeks or Yugoslavians, being fair skinned and tending to blond hair and blue eyes (like Alexander).

The Ptolomeic Dynasty was inbred as they wished to keep their line "pure" which is why by the time they got down to Cleopatra they were degenerate, physically.

So, maybe she was black, but most likely not. Probably looked liked Anwar Sadat's wife, a light skinned mixture.

Regards,

66 posted on 03/16/2005 3:18:46 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: Jimmy Valentine; real saxophonist
Then again, she may have been African-American like real saxophonist reported in Post #15, above. As homosexual historians (and Oliver Stone) have assured us, Alexander III of Macedon was gay; so it's not too far-fetched to consider that the great-great-great-great granddaughter of one of Alexander's lieutenants would have sprung in full from the union of two lesbians. Once you take that leap, there's nowhere that horse won't go!
67 posted on 03/16/2005 4:04:30 AM PST by The Great Yazoo (He sat, in defiance of municipal orders, astride the gun Zam Zammah on her brick platform...)
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To: speedy
So Julius Caesar and Mark Antony were seduced by her for her mind? Yeah, I really believe that. Even 2,000 years ago, things weren't that different.

You should have seen her Frontal Lobes.

68 posted on 03/16/2005 4:16:37 AM PST by Lazamataz (Cleverly Arranging 1's And 0's Since 11110111011...)
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To: Polybius

Are you sure those aren't Susan B. Anthony dollars? Or maybe Susan B. Anthony is a lineal descendant of Cleopatra and Mark Antony.


69 posted on 03/16/2005 4:16:57 AM PST by speedy
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To: FYREDEUS
Why do you have difficulty believing Caesar would be attracted to a beautiful mind? A woman with a great mind is a most wondrously attractive thing :-).

I agree that a great mind has its attractions. It's just that when guys like Caesar start cheating on their wives, it's usually with someone who looks more like an aerobics instructor than like Madame Curie.

70 posted on 03/16/2005 4:23:44 AM PST by speedy
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To: Lazamataz

I'll bet Julius got an eyefull of those.


71 posted on 03/16/2005 4:26:37 AM PST by speedy
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To: Lazamataz

I'll bet Julius got an eyefull of those.


72 posted on 03/16/2005 4:26:37 AM PST by speedy
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To: Noachian

Was it an old crusty, black business suit? 8-)


73 posted on 03/16/2005 4:26:53 AM PST by 7thson (I think it takes a big dog to weigh a hundred pounds!)
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To: Rudder

That looks like a turkey on her head.


74 posted on 03/16/2005 4:31:24 AM PST by 7thson (I think it takes a big dog to weigh a hundred pounds!)
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To: nickcarraway

From what I've read, Cleopatra was the Monica Lewinsky of her day. She popularized the use of lipstick which was originally used by Egyptian prostitutes who specialized in oral sex.


75 posted on 03/16/2005 4:37:00 AM PST by laredo44 (Liberty is not the problem)
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To: nickcarraway

This article misses the real point of both Caesar's and Antony's dalliance with Cleopatra -- Egypt was the breadbasket of the ancient world, supplying most of the grain for the eastern Mediterranean and even the whole basin during crop failures in northern Africa. Roman strongmen who controlled the grain supply controlled the Roman mob. If you controlled the mob, you controlled the state. Hence, gain Egypt and you gain the Roman world. Cleopatra was Egypt. Q.E.D.


76 posted on 03/16/2005 4:37:02 AM PST by Cincinatus (Omnia relinquit servare Republicam)
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To: Jimmy Valentine
Actually, Black was one of the things Cleopatra almost certainly was not.

As you say she was a descendent of the Ptolomies. I think only one of her close ancestors is not known. That gives people the chance to say he could have been Egyptian, therefore Black.

Of course the fact that the Egyptians were not Black at all seems to make no difference. BTW, Ramses the Great had red, wavy hair. This is not a guess, it is known for certain.

Cleopatra did have one ancestor who was what we would call Iraqi now.

77 posted on 03/16/2005 4:49:22 AM PST by yarddog
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To: speedy

Yeah, and they read Playboy for the intellectual articles.


78 posted on 03/16/2005 4:51:59 AM PST by Redleg Duke (Pass Tort Reform Now! Make the bottom clean for the catfish!)
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To: Redleg Duke

Somebody told me they have pictures in there now.


79 posted on 03/16/2005 5:01:38 AM PST by speedy
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To: speedy
No, I think she wielded tremendous power. She seduced with her feminine ways, but kept Caesar and Antony with her strategic mind. Beauty and brains. By today's standards, she be a conservative. ;).
80 posted on 03/16/2005 5:04:47 AM PST by rintense
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