Woman who died with bear guru was duped.(Treadwell, environut)

Anchorage Daily News ^ | 1/16/2005 | Craig Medred

[SolidRedState]

For 16 months since Amie Huguenard and Timothy Treadwell died in the jaws of a bear at Kaflia Bay on the Katmai Coast, I have been waking up at night with thoughts of this 37-year-old Midwestern woman I never knew.

I can't get free of the words in an e-mail from an old boyfriend, sent months after Huguenard's death.

"Amie had a kind of naivete about her that added a real sweetness to her entire persona,'' Stephen Bunch wrote. "At times it was easy to convince her of things that were not entirely true. We would let her in on these jokes and get a good laugh, especially from her.

"Sometimes I found this quality frustrating because I would watch her 'swallow the hook, line and sinker' in situations where it was obvious what was going on. But I always felt I could trust her because she bestowed the same trust in you unconditionally.''

The last person Amie Huguenard trusted was Treadwell, and it led to her death in the jaws of a bear.

Ever since, she has been billed as Treadwell's "partner" in the tragedy. Early reviews of "Grizzly Man,'' a Treadwell film set to air at the Sundance Film Festival later this month, describe her that way or as the "girlfriend'' following Treadwell on his quest to "leave the confinements of his humanness and bond with the bears.''

That's a novel idea -- and one that is so much bunk.

http://www.adn.com/outdoors/story/6029929p-5919386c.html

[SLB]

I read the on-line Casper Star Tribune every day to catch up on the news from "home." It never ceases to amaze me in the summer to read of the number of bear maulings in the Yellowstone area. Tourists just want to pet the great big teddy bears. Guys like Treadwell (my wife's maiden name by the way, I hope no relation) need to be forgotten about, he is out of the gene pool and the world is now more than likely a better place.

[livius]

Incredible pictures, datura.

I think I'll go off and have a few nightmares now. Ooops, it's daytime - well, anyway, scary stuff!

[Shooter 2.5]

You're correct about the 45/70. With the changes in powder and projectiles, it's not your grandaddy's rifle anymore.

I think you're a little confused by the .50 though. The modern .50 caliber sniper rifle is far and away more powerful than anything they had in the 1800's. Today's .50 is a .50BMG caliber. It stands for Browning Machine gun. The cartridge is the same which is still used in the M2 machine gun.

The Standard load in the Civil War was a muzzle loaded .58 caliber Minie bullet with about 70 grains of blackpowder.
After the Civil War, the 50-70 cartridge was accepted followed by the 45-70 during the 1870's.

[duckandcover]

And who's the nut who said we don't need the NRA?

[Drammach]

Yes, the .50 caliber rifle has been around for a long time..
They were used for buffalo hunting in the 1860's..

The "Trapdoor Springfield" was available in both 45-70 and 50-70.
The Remington Rolling Block was also available in 44-77, 44-90, 50-70, and later, the 45-70.. ( a very popular caliber of the times.. )

Of course, the most famous of the buffalo guns was the Sharps Model 1874..
Sharps also made a 50-90 model, used by famous buffalo hunter Billy Dixon who took out an Indian warrior at 1,500 yards. (.85225 miles )

Other makers were Ballard, Maynard, and Spencer. ( which was also considered and exceptional gun..)
------------------------------------------------------

I have read an article (or ad) recently concerning 45/70 and 45/110 lever-actions..
They are readily available in the modern market..
Reason for interest was the recent talk of "outlawing" 50 cal rifles in CA..
I figured one way to get around it was to simply go to the 45/70..

I am sure that the 50 cal of today is better than that of yesteryear..
That, however, wasn't the point.. In fact, it proves my point..
If a powder and ball 50 cal. ( or 45/70) was powerful enough for Bison and Grizzly in the 1860's and 70's, today's models are more than sufficient..

[Shooter 2.5]

I just wanted you to know the 50 BMG sniper rifle they are using today has almost nothing in common with the ones used over a hundred years ago except for the diameter. You are correct though when you do say the antiques are more than adequate for taking any big game on this hemisphere.

Billy Dixon never mentioned just which .50 he had used. All the facts of that case came from his wife Olive's book of his story. He only mentioned he used "a big 50". Just which one it was is speculation.

[NoClones]

whoa, that is some brer-bar!

what caliber of gun did that guy use?

[judywillow]

I would want something more powerful than just a 45/70, you are talking 1870 technology.

Not in the slightest. The modern Marlin 45/70 is America's most lethal gun, more capable of killing large animals quickly than anything else on the planet including any of the large magnums.

Try this for instance.

[Drammach]

what caliber of gun did that guy use?

Here's the quote from the hunter that got it..

" My partner and I ran into the unexpected . . . "BIG ARSE URSUS"! The bear was shot 10 yards away (no zeros missing in that figure my friends) in the head with a .338 Remington Winnie, using 250 grain Nosler handloads, followed up with two shots to the vitals. A very quick clean death.

We were working up a creek, headed for the mountains to hunt blacktail. He was coming down the creek, hunting for the last of the spawning Coho in the creek. We initially spotted him from 40 yds off. As a matter of fact we were glassing the bear over the high brush just behind the bear when we spotted him.

Here's another photograph of the hunters posing with their ursine prey:

Note: Standing height of bear, 12 ft, 6 inches..

[Drammach]

ACK !! I guess they don't like links to their photos !!

[Drammach]

[Fiddlstix]

Click the Pic

[fuente]

This is not news to me and my old Marlin Cowboy. I've never shot anything that had that type of punch. I've never shot anything with it that didn't drop like a sack of taters. Well at least parts of it that I could still pick up.

[U S Army EOD]

And then the 45-90 and 50-90. I think that is about as far as it went.

[U S Army EOD]

It is the old argument of mass vs. velocity. Roy Weatherby always felt that velocity was much more important due to the large amount of hydraulic shock created by a super high velocity.

If you can get some type of .300 Mag take it and a 45/70 and shoot a watermelon at about 100 yards or so and see which one does the most damage. This is why the 5.56 will do more damage to some targets than a slow load in a 30-06 under 100 yards. Where I grew up, we had a lot of problems with wild dogs killing cattle. I have shot them through the head with a .308 and it just blew a hole through the head. I have also shot them in the head with a .222 rem and it literally blew their heads off. ie. the jaw bone being 20 feet in front of the head, one eyeball stuck up on the side of the barn about 8 feet up and the only thing left of the head from neck up was a sliver of skin with one eye attached. (Grossed me out when I saw it). That was a 53 grain HP at 3150 fps. My .300 Weatherby will crank a 110 grain bullet out in excess of 4000 fps. I would still hesitate to use the .300 on a Grizzly bear and would prefer something similar to the .340 Weatherby or larger.

Anytime you are under 2000 fps you will not get the desire hydraulic shock.

[U S Army EOD]

I remember reading articles on firearms back in the 50's when you didn't have much choice of what you shot. The weapon of choice for Eskimos for both seal and polar bear was the .222 Remington. Better them than me.

[judywillow]

Hydraulic shock might make an impression on a wild dog but it's not going to phase a rhino. They're using that Garret 45/70 ammo and Marlin rifles to kill elephants and rhinos these days.

[Shooter 2.5]

I'm not sure how you're wording this. The "pretty much standard" load in the Civil War was a Muzzle loaded .58 Minie.
Then the 50-70 in a trapdoor.
Followed by a 45-70 again in a trapdoor.
Next came the .30 Krag with the Krag-Jorgenson.
30-06, 1903 Springfield.
30-06, M1 Garand
7.62 X 51[.308], M-14
5.56,[.223] M-16

[Squantos]

Albeit I love my 45-70's and would have no problems taking on dangerosu game with the garrett hammerheads I'll disagree about Americas most lethal gun.......

This little plinker is the king of commercially available dangerous game ammunition. Granted there are "speciality" ammo companies that make 500 Nitro etc but the .460 Wthy mag gets my vote for that title.....of most lethal.

Just my opinion of course......

[AnAmericanMother]

It's the custom ammo, not the Marlin.

And I'd make sure I had the Ballard custom barrel and not the lesser lever-actions . . . that 540 gr Hammerhead will blow up anything but that - and it says so on the label.

Probably custom loads are available for the .375 H&H that will do the same thing. Overall it's a better and more accurate cartridge, and it certainly has a wider range of loads available.

(Talk about not widely available - I have a .348 Winchester Model 71, actually, it's my dad's, and it's a great North American bear rifle, but completely obsolete and all ammo has to be hand loaded. Finding bullets is getting difficult, too.)