Perfect John Adams quote showing that Religion has a place in government (Vanity)

[AVNevis]

I was doing reasearch this evening for a debate tournament I am participating in a couple of weeks when I came upon this quote:

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -John Adams

It seems to me this just nails the aclu argument about separation of church and state. Here we have a founding father stating that the constitution does not work if the people are not moral and religious. It seems to me we should be using this quote much more often in debates with liberals.

[risk]

I don't recall that the majority were diest. I do agree that today's TV evangelist-led Christian theocrats would make all of them turn in their graves. Except for Patrick Henry, who refused to attend the Constitutional Convention because he knew he wouldn't succeed in getting his way.

[risk]

I don't know if I will survive a divsion.

[little jeremiah]

Read "Slouching Towards Gomorrah" by Robert Bork. Great book on the topic.

[Torie]

The sensibilities of the nation were indeed profoundly Christian, and those with influence about ideas which shaped this nation, the most literate on the planet back then, the New England Yankees, were indeed serious Christians at the time of our founding, and indeed throughout the 19th century, abeit of course not fundamentalists. But the strain of Christianity which held sway, didn't trust religious institutions, or infusing government with the power attendant to the sacred. Americans were just too individualistic, and still are. What gives America its unique virtu, its Christian sensibilities, shared by many like myself who are not religious, along with a secular government. This ying and the yang gives our nation its tensile strength.

[B4Ranch]

Monster 'Heritage Area' Land Grab Moving Through Congress (Action Alert)

Recommendation, Bookmark this one too.

[GarySpFc]

". . . Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: 'It connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." President Adams, July 4, 1821

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were.... the general principles of Christianity." -- John Adams in letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 28, 1813

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams from his Oct. 13, 1789 address to the military.

"Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there contained! Every member would be obliged in conscience to temperance, frugality and industry: to justice, kindness and charity towards his fellow men: and to piety, love and reverence toward Almighty God....What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." John Adams diary entry Feb. 22., 1756.

"The Christian religion is, above all the Religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of Wisdom, Virtue, Equity, and Humanity. Let the Blackguard Paine say what he will; it is Resignation to God, it is Goodness itself to man." John Adams retorting to Thomas Paine in his diary, July 26, 1796.

"A patriot without religion, in my estimation, is as great a paradox as an honest man without the fear of God. Is it possible that he whom no moral obligations bind, can have any real Good Will towards Men? Can he be a patriot who, by an openly vicious conduct, is undermining the very bonds of Society? ...The Scriptures tell us righteousness exalteth a Nation." Abigal Adams, wife of President John Adams in letter to husband John Adams 1776.

"...a true American Patriot must be a religious man...He who neglects his duty to his maker, may well be expected to be deficient and insincere in his duty towards the public." Abigal Adams, wife of President John Adams in letter to husband John Adams 1776.

"The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but the God of Israel is He that giveth strength and power unto His people. Trust in Him at all times, ye people, pour out your hearts before Him; God is a refuge for us." Abigal Adams, wife of President John Adams in letter to husband John Adams 1776.

"Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone, which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free Constitution is pure virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People in a greater Measure than they have it now, they may change their rulers and the forms of government, but they will not obtain a lasting liberty." John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown, 1854), Vol. IX, p. 401, dated June 21, 1776.

"The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were . . . the general principles of Christianity." John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 28, 1813, The Adams-Jefferson Letters,ed. Lester J. Cappon (Chapel Hill, NC: University of North Carolina Press, 1959), vol 2, pp. 339-40.

[B4Ranch]

>>There's no reason why we have to invite people here to teach them about democracy!<<

The people coming here are not interested in democracy!

[Swordmaker]

If nothing else, out founding fathers were intellectual; and in that they were a lot more open to pragmatic exploration of religious beliefs than the common man. They also were frugal with the right to vote.

See my last post. You and I agree.

It has been said that the Masons were the originators of the middle class... and of a group of skilled people, who because of those skills the universal demand for those skills, were essentially independent of any government and even somewhat independent of the Church. Masonic thinking may (probably) had a lot to do with the construction of our limited form of government

My original point was that many secularists (and liberals in particular) like to use the "founding fathers were deists" argument as a club, a trump card, implying that the "founding fathers" were not Christian, as though it is based in fact. It is not.

They were however men of faith who could set aside their sectarian difference for the greater good of establishing a government under which people of different faiths could flourish. They wish not to foist THEIR particular doctrine and dogma on their neighbors, mutually prefering instead to rely on their own sects' proseletyzing and arts of persuasion outside of government to convince their neighbors of the errors of their ways. The one thing they recognized was the power of government to oppress and they attempted to make a nation with only limited power resting the sovereignity and the power in the people themselves.

[little jeremiah]

Here's a couple more quotes:

"Religion and virtue are the only foundations, not only of all free government, but of social felicity under all governments and in all the combinations of human society." John Adams

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity. John Quincy Adams

"Man, considered as a creature, must necessarily be subject to the laws of his Creator, for he is entirely a dependent being....And, consequently, as man depends absolutely upon his Maker for everything, it is necessary that he should in all points conform to his Maker's will...this will of his Maker is called the law of nature. These laws laid down by God are the eternal immutable laws of good and evil...This law of nature dictated by God himself, is of course superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe, in all countries, and at all times: no human laws are of any validity if contrary to this... Sir William Blackstone

"It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of
Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits,
and humbly to implore his protection and favors." --George
Washington


Check out the Federalist - they have an archive of interesting and useful quotes.

https://secure.federalist.com/

[risk]

I could go into great detail explaining why you are right. Every once in a while I tell an anecdote to illustrate that point. Immigrants these days, be they from India, Africa, Asia, Latin America, you name it -- all they want is money, power, sex, and a safe neighborhood to raise their 10 children.

And Americans (all races) pinch their pennies, pay horrific taxes, and hold off on having children until it's too late -- and all along we're told it's for diversity.

[JockoManning]

bookmarking

and thanks much to AVNevis for posting this thread.

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -John Adams

[B4Ranch]

No Sir, Thank you!!

[TheCrusader]

"Well there are some civil states with a democratic tradition that are largely not religious now. So Adams was wrong"

Actually, he was dead right, unless you think homosexual marriage, abortion on demand, no-fault divorce, the suppression of public prayer and fifty percent taxes were something the Fathers had in mind when they framed the Constitution.

Adams essentially said the Constitution wouldn't work in an immoral, irreligious country. And as I see it, the Constitution as ADAMS knew it is no longer extant. It may contain the same words Adams knew but those words have been re-interpreted to mean something the Founding Fathers never intended.

[LiteKeeper]

Thanks for posting this...I have been looking for it all day.

[so_real]

George Washington was a Christian by in own words and is supported as such by the very words of his adoptive daughter, Nelly Parke Custis, when directly questioned on the subject. When President Washington told the Delaware Indian Chiefs that they would "do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ." I'm sure they considered him a Christian too. George Washington *believed* that he and his contemporaries were like-minded in politics and religion. And I trust his opinion (his written opinion in context). The fact that you can't handle this positively amazes me.

[little jeremiah]

Moral Absolutes Ping - An interesting discussion going on.

Haven't read the whole thread yet.

One question that I have never heard answered to my satisfaction is this:

If we reject the moral absolutes as taught by the religions of the world, where do we find standards of right and wrong? What guide do we use to determine where the line bewteen moral and immoral?

Crickets chirping...*

Let me know if anyone wants on/off this pinglist.

*If someone says, "Well, each person has to decide morality and immorality for himself", then I counter with: What about the German homosexual cannibals? They thought consensual cannibalism was a fine thing. Should a society allow this to go on?

Crickets chirping...

[B4Ranch]

>>all along we're told<<

Old and grumpy as I am, if the speaker is a government representative, I have learned he is lying to me.

Most of the time the speaker doesn't see the whole issue either. Probably because he was intentionally kept in the dark by his controllers.

[B4Ranch]

The decent agnostics and atheists that I have discussed this with use the 10 Commandments minus the references to God as a guideline for their morality and standards of right and wrong.

[notamused]

When confronted with facts just take another drink of cool aid
and climb further out on the limb. Good luck out there.
4 more years of Bush and Cheney saving your ass like it or not.
The people have spoken...and by the way In God We Trust

[B4Ranch]

I say thank you for posting #76 and I get "just take another drink of cool aid"

I don't understand your reply.