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Many soldiers will have a tough decision to make if Kerry is commander in chief
dfu | 10-30-04 | dfu

Posted on 10/30/2004 3:46:30 PM PDT by doug from upland

My son in law is in the Navy. After 5 years, he re-upped last year for 3 more. He has thought of making it a career and proudly serves his country.

But like many, many of his comrades, he wonders what he will do if John Kerry becomes the commander in chief.

He knows all about Kerry --- testifying to lies in the Senate, the Winter Soldier lies, the questionable medals, the visits to Paris, the vote whether to assassinate senators, etc. He knows that Kerry's words were used to torture men in custody.

Soldiers and sailors everywhere are worried. Those who have made it a career know that the commander in chief will change and it might not be someone with whom they agree. But he is the commander in chief, and they do their job to serve the country. That is what comes first.

But our warriors have never faced anything like this. Clinton loathed the military and hurt the military, but they survived. With Kerry, they know that they are facing the prospect of being commanded by someone who can truly be called a traitor.

Many of our finest will wonder what to do. Would commander in chief Kerry force them to wear the blue helmets of the U.N.? Would he turn them over to a world court for justice? Would he veto funding bills like the $87 billion?

I had written previously that under Kerry, we might need a draft because of the number of soldiers who would not serve under him.

Right now, our military is the best in the world. Among the reasons are that the men and women respect their commander in chief. And their commander in chief respects them. We will have a nightmare on our hands if the commander changes right now.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: issues; kerry; scary
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To: verity
I have greater faith!

You have greater faith?

In what? And than whom?

161 posted on 10/31/2004 12:34:08 PM PST by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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To: NOTTAHERO

At the moment I feel very much the same way. Who wants to be the last man to die for John Kerry?


162 posted on 10/31/2004 12:39:52 PM PST by RedEyeJack
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To: O.C. - Old Cracker
I would strongly discourage any young man from serving under a John Kerry presidency, not because their sacrifice would be lessened by his leadership, but because he has proven himself repeatedly over the last 35 years to be an enemy of the American military establishment.

I'm sorry for your loss and I salute your brother's memory, and his heroic service.

But I'm not about to urge anybody to refrain from serving in a Kerry administration military, nor would I urge my friends currently serving to quit or retire early. They may well do so, anyway, but not at my behest. Can't leave the country defenseless, just because we revile the CINC. Besides, there is little doubt that we will retain operational control of the House of Representatives. Kerry still has to go there, for funding.

I don't know why we're arguing so much NOW, because the votes ain't counted and the fat lady ain't singin'!

163 posted on 10/31/2004 12:46:30 PM PST by ExSoldier (When the going gets tough, the tough go cyclic.)
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To: NOTTAHERO

Imagine serving under a CO who told lies about your brothers and then expected you to follow his orders. If that dink had turned on Kerry 36 years ago he would have been doing us all a big favor.


164 posted on 10/31/2004 12:46:37 PM PST by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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To: ExSoldier

We're on the same side here and I'm not arguing with you, but tell me honestly, would you want your son in harm's way with Kerry at the switch?


165 posted on 10/31/2004 12:48:40 PM PST by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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To: O.C. - Old Cracker

"I am not questioning the dedication of any individual soldier, but I am questioning the potential effectiveness of any fighting force that is told by its top commander that the war in which it is engaged is at the wrong place, wrong time.
The current crop of recruits weren't even born when Kerry testified before the Senate in 1971, but many of their senior commanders are Vietnam veterans and they remember. They remember all too well."

Bingo!

I was but 11 years old at the time, but I remember.

I'll not suffer through that which out Viet Nam Vets had to endure.

Perhaps they'll take me back after 4 years if he's elected, but hey, What am I talking about! GWB will kick his ass and I'll continue my service to our great country. With honor.


166 posted on 10/31/2004 12:59:21 PM PST by roaddog727 (The marginal propensity to save is 1 minus the marginal propensity to consume.)
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To: O.C. - Old Cracker
would you want your son in harm's way with Kerry at the switch?

Probably not. But if he really wanted to go, I wouldn't try too hard to dissuade him. I'd trust his judgment to pick the right MOS and to become well trained enough to survive. I believe in the total sovereignty of God. He holds dominion over my life and over the lives of my family. Had I a son, and he wished to go, I and he would trust in the Lord.

167 posted on 10/31/2004 1:13:06 PM PST by ExSoldier (When the going gets tough, the tough go cyclic.)
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To: O.C. - Old Cracker; redrock; ExSoldier; doug from upland; All
"Is there any point at which the CINC's character, or lack thereof, becomes an issue? Would you willingly serve under a Hitler, Stalin or Mao?"

Hello, O.C., I hope you are well.

As to your above question, of course not. However, the case here, as in the past in America, is not so clear as that. Yes, Kerry (and Clinton before him, as well as Carter and Johnson if you want to be technical) were and are absolutely disgusting to consider as CinC's. Their presence in that job was demoralizing, and soul-cauterizing for thiose of us who make the military a career.

However, none of those men were found guilty of treason by their countrymen, regardless of the evidence. They were all elected to their office (except Kerry, one hopes) by those same Americans. Thus, under our laws and Constitution which I serve, they were the CinC.

I "signed on the dotted line" about a month before the election in '92 which gave us 8 years of Clinton. I decided to go ahead anyway, due mainly to some words of "old salt" wisdom from some great Navy Chiefs who'd been through this stuff before. Essentially, they told this then-young Sailor that the country could and had survived idiots in the White House before, and their presence made the necessity of having good men in the service all the more acute.

I went on to endure three deployments under Xtoon, two of them to the Balkan theater during which I questioned our mission (in my own mind) every day I flew there. Essentially, I kept coming back to the fact that my countrymen would have removed Slick from office if his actions and policies were so bad. Through their votes, they had APPROVED of his actions, at least enough to keep me over the Adriatic Sea and Bosnia for a year of my life.

By the time the WONDERFUL day of President Bush's inauguration had arrived, I was an "old salt" myself...now an Instructor and senior Petty Officer. I nowe understood far more fully what I had been feeling...that what I had learned, and what I had KEPT as traditions and trusts all those years now had to be passed along to the young, so THEY ould now pass it further, as well as use it to survive and win.

Fact is, those Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen now kicking butt in the Terror War were either trained by guys like me who went through the Clinton mess or went through it themselves. Those who first fired shots in anger in this war were almost all recruited and trained during the 90's. Did the fact that their CinC at the time was a slimy huckster with a zipper problem seem to limit their effectiveness to you? I hope not, as they were TRAINED properly DESPITE the poor examples and bad policies of the Slickster. That's what those who stay during such times try to do...mitigate the damage of bad leaders, who , after all, are transitory.

That, I guess, is the biggest flaw in your "Hitler/Mao/Stalin" analogy...they were "there for life", with NO bounds on their power or ambition. Here, at least, the MAX we have to deal with even an imbecilic peacenik is 8 years.

That's why it is even MORE critical to have people around who serve the COUNTRY and not some guy.

168 posted on 10/31/2004 1:28:45 PM PST by Long Cut (The Constitution...the NATOPS of America!)
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To: doug from upland

I am afraid that Kerry has more support among the military than most of us would like to believe.

I guess we'll find out in a couple of days, however.


169 posted on 10/31/2004 1:35:46 PM PST by Amelia
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To: O.C. - Old Cracker

Obviously you want to panic. I'll enable you.If Kerry is elected, the oceans will dry up and your reproductive appendage will fall off. :~)


170 posted on 10/31/2004 1:38:04 PM PST by verity (The Liberal Media is America's Enemy)
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To: doug from upland

My co-workers son is going to get out if Kerry is elected. He says many of them are waiting to see who wins on Tuesday.


171 posted on 10/31/2004 1:38:08 PM PST by eyespysomething (Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality the cost becomes prohibitive.)
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To: Long Cut

Again, I appreciate your position and salute all who continue to serve the country, despite the commander in chief. Commanders in chief come and go. If Kerry wins, I hope it is not a problem and we don't need a draft. But for the reasons earlier stated, a Kerry presidency is very worrisome.


172 posted on 10/31/2004 1:43:02 PM PST by doug from upland (Michael Moore = a culinary Pinocchio ---- tell a lie, gain a pound.)
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To: Long Cut
Long Cut: Well said and AMEN.

O.C. : I would hope that in the event of a Hitler or a Mao or a Stalin, our SpecOps folks would find enough Constitutional reasons to effect a regime change. When forced to take the infamous Twentynine Palms survey in which the last question was: "If a law was passed and signed into law that confiscated the firearms of American citizens would you be willing to use deadly force to accomplish this?" The SpecOps community promised just such an action. Quietly. But firmly. Do a google search for: "An Open Letter From a Green Beret" I posted it here on FR during Clinton's era. Go check it out, both of you.

173 posted on 10/31/2004 1:58:16 PM PST by ExSoldier (When the going gets tough, the tough go cyclic.)
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To: Long Cut
An open letter from a 'Green Beret'

The Resister: The Political Warfare Journal of the Special Forces Underground Spring 1998 'Defector in Place--USSOCOM'

This letter is addressed to old family Reds, central bankers, military traitors (past and present), academia, media pundits, "civil rights" activists, and "Greens." Your worst fears are justified; Special Forces Underground is real. It's not just a subtitle on the Resister's masthead. Worse for you, is that it's not just in Special Forces. It exists in all branches of the military, in federal agencies, among civilians, and in several foreign countries.

I am an old Special Forces active duty soldier. I've worked with people in all branches of the military, alphabet soup federal agencies, police departments, and civilians. While most people I've worked with are passive supporters of resistance to your "global community," there are some who are willing to actively defend what they believe in.

I will continue to perform my appointed military duties in a professional manner. I will publicly agree with your collectivist policies and parrot your slogans. I pay my taxes, don't belong to any "militia," and won't join any "extremist" group. For all outside appearances I am one of your "global community" peasants.

Having traveled extensively I have seen firsthand the results of failed collectivist governments who have looted their countries into squalor. Most politically attuned people I know have seen it also and know that the only way you can achieve your global community is by doing the same to America.

Some think resistance is futile. Maybe it is. But we are willing to fight you, and make you pay DEARLY for your arrogance. We are moral, principled, and believe in the ORIGINAL Constitution and the philosophies that define it. You see, your mistake was that you thought we'd just mumble our oath and then contradict it when ordered to. but YOU,--you promoters of the "brotherhood of mankind"--are the enemies domestic we are sworn to defend the Constitution against. We didn't choose you as the enemy. By your collectivist ideologies and actions, you self selected.

We pray to the God you SCORN that the day never arrives when we are finally compelled to turn against you, what you expected us to do to enemies foreign. If that day does arise, lament. For I, and others like me, have been trained in the blackest of arts, and the darkest of crafts. Your minions are useless cattle. They cannot protect you. You cannot hide. WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE, but you'll NEVER know whether der guten soldat you hired is one of us---or not.

So, to all you altruist-collectivist global citizens: "YOU WILL FIND NO JOY IN YOUR NEW WORLD ORDER."

This letter is extremely articulate and well written. The author is obviously highly educated and totally dedicated. GLAD HE'S ON OUR SIDE! I sure would hate to be one of the NWO minions he mentions when the balloon goes up!

Posted by: ExSoldier

You'll notice the date on this was Spring 1998. But I apparently first signed on here in 1999 according to my profile. As I explained on the About Page, I was here in various forms for quite awhile. FIRST as ExSoldier, then as GunsUp! and now again as ExSoldier.

174 posted on 10/31/2004 2:07:45 PM PST by ExSoldier (When the going gets tough, the tough go cyclic.)
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To: verity
Your lack of maturity is showing. I am not in a panic, but regardless of what is said here, John F. Kerry is not fit to be the CINC. If you could see yourself saluting the office with pride as that oily snake entered your presence, then I don't quite know what to say. I could not salute him, shake his hand or even speak in a civil tone to the incarnate evil that is John Kerry.

As bad as they were, LBJ, Nixon, Carter, or Clinton weren't as detrimental to this nation's sovereignty and security as a John Kerry presidency would be. The others were just bunglers, narcisists and idiots. John Kerry is evil.

I can imagine worse scenarios than the dissolution of our Republic into civil war. For starters, I can imagine John Kerry merging our troops with the U.N. or the E.U. But I'm not panicking young man, I am merely expressing my concern for a country I hold dear and if the outcome on November 2nd goes against my wishes, I will mourn for our nation. If Tuesday goes to the liberals, then this country is in great peril of being swallowed to darkness.

175 posted on 10/31/2004 2:55:59 PM PST by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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To: O.C. - Old Cracker
You really are a recalcitrant old fart!

I was a professional soldier for 25 years and, as much as I despise Kerry, I know that the military could survive the bastard.

176 posted on 10/31/2004 3:08:26 PM PST by verity (The Liberal Media is America's Enemy)
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To: Long Cut
L.C., all the best to you, as well.

It didn't take Hitler eight years to defeat the rule of Kaiser Wilhelm and change the country from a monarchy to a socialist dictatorship.

The fact that John Kerry's 'Mein Kampf' (aka 'The New Soldier') wasn't written in prison is only due to the bloat and boredom from the ranks of Brokaw's 'Greatest Generation'. It was the fat and happy World War Two generation that failed to properly prosecute the war in Vietnam and failed to silence the likes of Jane Fonda and John Kerry.

The fact that John Kerry was not officially branded a traitor does not detract one iota from his guilt. He deserves death by firing squad for his actions. None of the other CINCs mentioned, as disgusting as they were, could have been convicted of the charge of treason based on fact.

177 posted on 10/31/2004 3:18:06 PM PST by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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To: verity

I take counsel from Jesus Christ of Nazareth, myself, and no one else. Heeding my counsel, I fail. If that marks me as recalcitrant, I'll live with that.


178 posted on 10/31/2004 3:34:32 PM PST by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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To: O.C. - Old Cracker; Long Cut
When I enlisted...(and this was during Vietnam)...I swore an oath to '...support and defend the CONSTITUTION of the United States..'.

I swore NO oath to defend a President..or even like one for that matter.

I'm sure it is still the same now.

Your analogy about Hitler etc. is a false one....

redrock

179 posted on 10/31/2004 3:35:47 PM PST by redrock (John Kerry....a reincarnation of Benedict Arnold????)
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To: redrock

Your tag line correctly identifies Mr. Kerry. Who would willingly serve under a Benedict Arnold? Not I.


180 posted on 10/31/2004 4:00:11 PM PST by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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