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To: O.C. - Old Cracker; redrock; ExSoldier; doug from upland; All
"Is there any point at which the CINC's character, or lack thereof, becomes an issue? Would you willingly serve under a Hitler, Stalin or Mao?"

Hello, O.C., I hope you are well.

As to your above question, of course not. However, the case here, as in the past in America, is not so clear as that. Yes, Kerry (and Clinton before him, as well as Carter and Johnson if you want to be technical) were and are absolutely disgusting to consider as CinC's. Their presence in that job was demoralizing, and soul-cauterizing for thiose of us who make the military a career.

However, none of those men were found guilty of treason by their countrymen, regardless of the evidence. They were all elected to their office (except Kerry, one hopes) by those same Americans. Thus, under our laws and Constitution which I serve, they were the CinC.

I "signed on the dotted line" about a month before the election in '92 which gave us 8 years of Clinton. I decided to go ahead anyway, due mainly to some words of "old salt" wisdom from some great Navy Chiefs who'd been through this stuff before. Essentially, they told this then-young Sailor that the country could and had survived idiots in the White House before, and their presence made the necessity of having good men in the service all the more acute.

I went on to endure three deployments under Xtoon, two of them to the Balkan theater during which I questioned our mission (in my own mind) every day I flew there. Essentially, I kept coming back to the fact that my countrymen would have removed Slick from office if his actions and policies were so bad. Through their votes, they had APPROVED of his actions, at least enough to keep me over the Adriatic Sea and Bosnia for a year of my life.

By the time the WONDERFUL day of President Bush's inauguration had arrived, I was an "old salt" myself...now an Instructor and senior Petty Officer. I nowe understood far more fully what I had been feeling...that what I had learned, and what I had KEPT as traditions and trusts all those years now had to be passed along to the young, so THEY ould now pass it further, as well as use it to survive and win.

Fact is, those Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen now kicking butt in the Terror War were either trained by guys like me who went through the Clinton mess or went through it themselves. Those who first fired shots in anger in this war were almost all recruited and trained during the 90's. Did the fact that their CinC at the time was a slimy huckster with a zipper problem seem to limit their effectiveness to you? I hope not, as they were TRAINED properly DESPITE the poor examples and bad policies of the Slickster. That's what those who stay during such times try to do...mitigate the damage of bad leaders, who , after all, are transitory.

That, I guess, is the biggest flaw in your "Hitler/Mao/Stalin" analogy...they were "there for life", with NO bounds on their power or ambition. Here, at least, the MAX we have to deal with even an imbecilic peacenik is 8 years.

That's why it is even MORE critical to have people around who serve the COUNTRY and not some guy.

168 posted on 10/31/2004 1:28:45 PM PST by Long Cut (The Constitution...the NATOPS of America!)
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To: Long Cut

Again, I appreciate your position and salute all who continue to serve the country, despite the commander in chief. Commanders in chief come and go. If Kerry wins, I hope it is not a problem and we don't need a draft. But for the reasons earlier stated, a Kerry presidency is very worrisome.


172 posted on 10/31/2004 1:43:02 PM PST by doug from upland (Michael Moore = a culinary Pinocchio ---- tell a lie, gain a pound.)
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To: Long Cut
Long Cut: Well said and AMEN.

O.C. : I would hope that in the event of a Hitler or a Mao or a Stalin, our SpecOps folks would find enough Constitutional reasons to effect a regime change. When forced to take the infamous Twentynine Palms survey in which the last question was: "If a law was passed and signed into law that confiscated the firearms of American citizens would you be willing to use deadly force to accomplish this?" The SpecOps community promised just such an action. Quietly. But firmly. Do a google search for: "An Open Letter From a Green Beret" I posted it here on FR during Clinton's era. Go check it out, both of you.

173 posted on 10/31/2004 1:58:16 PM PST by ExSoldier (When the going gets tough, the tough go cyclic.)
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To: Long Cut
L.C., all the best to you, as well.

It didn't take Hitler eight years to defeat the rule of Kaiser Wilhelm and change the country from a monarchy to a socialist dictatorship.

The fact that John Kerry's 'Mein Kampf' (aka 'The New Soldier') wasn't written in prison is only due to the bloat and boredom from the ranks of Brokaw's 'Greatest Generation'. It was the fat and happy World War Two generation that failed to properly prosecute the war in Vietnam and failed to silence the likes of Jane Fonda and John Kerry.

The fact that John Kerry was not officially branded a traitor does not detract one iota from his guilt. He deserves death by firing squad for his actions. None of the other CINCs mentioned, as disgusting as they were, could have been convicted of the charge of treason based on fact.

177 posted on 10/31/2004 3:18:06 PM PST by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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