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CBS Evening News: Questions Linger Over Bush Memos
CBS News ^ | Sept. 13, 2004 | Dan Rather

Posted on 09/13/2004 4:15:44 PM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer

Questions Linger Over Bush Memos

NEW YORK, Sept. 13, 2004
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 (Photo: CBS)

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For instance, CBS said, the official record shows that Mr. Bush was suspended from flying on Aug. 1, 1972. That date matches the one on a memo given to CBS News, ordering that Mr. Bush be suspended.

 

Document and handwriting examiner Marcel Matley  (Photo: CBS)


 

Dig Deeper
MORE INFORMATION
View the following documents obtained by 60 Minutes:

Memorandum, May 4, 1972

Memo to File, May 19, 1972

Memorandum For Record,
Aug. 1, 1972


Memo to File, Aug. 18, 1973

Read a transcript of Dan Rather's interview with Ben Barnes:

Also view documents released by the White House reflecting President Bush's National Guard service:

Memo from retired Lt. Col. Albert C. Lloyd on whether Mr. Bush satisfied Guard requirements

Personnel Card listing points Mr. Bush earned from May 1972 to May 1973

Service Record showing days Mr. Bush was credited with service from October 1972 to May 1973

Service Record showing days Mr. Bush was credited with service from May 1973 to July 1973

Pay Record listing days of service in 1972 and 1973, along with computer printouts of each quarter

Dental Record showing the results of a dental examination Mr. Bush had on Jan. 6, 1973.

 




 
(CBS/AP) Amid challenges from other news media, CBS News continued to defend itself over criticism stemming from documents it obtained that questioned President Bush's service in the Air National Guard.

CBS said it used several techniques to make sure the memos should be taken seriously, including talking to handwriting and document analysts and other experts who strongly insist that the documents could have been created in the 1970s.

CBS said Monday it relied on an analysis of the contents of the documents themselves to determine their authenticity. The new papers are in line with what is known about the president's service assignments and dates, CBS said.

For instance, CBS said, the official record shows that Mr. Bush was suspended from flying on Aug. 1, 1972. That date matches the one on a memo given to CBS News, ordering that Mr. Bush be suspended.

CBS News said last week the memos it received about President Bush's service in the Air National Guard came from "solid sources."

At question are memos that carry the signature of the late Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, who was the commander of Mr. Bush's Texas Air National Guard fighter squadron. They say Killian was under pressure to "sugar coat" Mr. Bush's record, and Mr. Bush refused a direct order to take a required medical examination and discussed how he could skip drills.

Casting further doubt on the memos, The Dallas Morning News said in a report for its Saturday editions that the officer named in a memo as exerting pressure to "sugar coat" Mr. Bush's record had left the Texas Air National Guard 1½ years before the memo was dated.

The newspaper said it obtained an order showing that Walter B. Staudt, former commander of the Texas Guard, retired on March 1, 1972. The memo was dated Aug. 18, 1973. A telephone call to Staudt's home Friday night was not answered.

New York Times columnist William Safire wrote Monday that Newsweek magazine had apparently begun an external investigation: it names "a disgruntled former Guard officer" as a principal source for CBS, noting "he suffered two nervous breakdowns" and "unsuccessfully sued for medical expenses."

The L.A. Times reported that handwriting analyst, Marcel Matley, who CBS had claimed vouched for the authenticity of four memos, vouched for only one signature, and no scribbled initials. The Times reports he has no opinion about the typography of any of the supposed memos.

"60 Minutes" relied on the documents as part of a Wednesday segment — reported by Rather — on Mr. Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard from 1968 to 1973.

Former colleagues of Killian disagreed Friday on the authenticity of the documents.

One, who appeared in the TV newsmagazine segment, said Friday he did not see anything in the memos that made him think they were forgeries. Robert Strong noted he's not a forensic expert and isn't vouching for the documents.

"I didn't see anything that was inconsistent with how we did business," Strong said in an interview. "It looked like the sort of thing that Jerry Killian would have done or said. He was a very professional guy."

Both Wednesday and Friday, Strong was the only associate of Killian quoted by CBS as supporting the memo's contents.

Retired Col. Maurice Udell, the unit's instructor pilot who helped train Mr. Bush, said Friday he thought the documents were fake.

"I completely am disgusted with this (report) I saw on 60 Minutes,"' Udell said. "That's not true. I was there. I knew Jerry Killian. I went to Vietnam with Jerry Killian in 1968."

Killian's son also questioned some of the documents, saying his father would never write a memo like the "sugar coat" one.

Several of the document examiners said one clue that the documents may be forgeries was the presence of superscripts — in this case, a raised, smaller "th" in two references to Guard units.

CBS News Anchor Dan Rather, who reported the story for 60 Minutes, said typewriters were available in the early 1970s which were capable of printing superscripts. CBS pointed to other Texas Air National Guard documents released by the White House that include an example of a raised "th" superscript.

That superscript, however, is in a different typeface than the one used for the CBS memos. Document examiner Sandra Ramsey Lines of Paradise Valley, Ariz., who examined the documents for the AP, said she was "virtually certain" they were generated by computer.

Some forensic experts were quoted by news organizations, including The Associated Press, saying the memos appeared to have been computer-generated with characteristics that weren't available three decades ago.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bias; cbs; cbsnews; election2004; forgery; journalism; kenneth; killian; media; rather
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
We all know the reasons the documents are false. CBS News called around for years until they got the documents conveniently supplied by one of the "sources" who, most likely said they thought they could be located. (Hope they paid them big $, too). The CBS News idea of tests etc. did not match the generally accepted industry standards. In essence, they were negligent because they were arrogant, the documents met their predetermined perception and agenda, and the wanted the documents to be real, sooo badly.

The printed media is on their case, the TV networks are extending professional courtesy (a pass); the FReeper are CREAMING THEM!

The latest from CBS dissected in part.
"...other experts who strongly insist that the documents could have been created in the 1970s. " LIE OF OMISSION: Highly unlikely

"The new papers are in line with what is known about the president's service assignments and dates, CBS said. ... date matches the one on a memo given to CBS New" LIE BY DECEPTION: No one said the forgers were stupid - sloppy, yes.

"CBS News said last week the memos it received about President Bush's service in the Air National Guard came from "solid sources." " LIE BY DECEPTION: Breaks the Chain of Custody to prove authenticity. Equates to "Trust Me and My Agenda". Deprives Pres. BUSH of his right to be confronted by his accuser per US Constitution, 5th Amendment I believe, while CBS claims Constitutional First Amendment.

"At question are memos that carry the signature of the late Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, who was the commander of Mr. Bush's Texas Air National Guard fighter squadron."" LIE OF OMISSION: The signatures are different from known signatures of Killian, the title is not in accordance with authentic memoranda. The forgery is obvious to all who look at the document and has been so stated by forensic examiners. Well you know the rest of the story, false addresses, retired Generals, Pentagon says the memos are false etc.

Don't forget, in those days, men didn't type. Killian's family said he doesn't type. I still use hunt and peck. I make mistakes like crazy. There are no typos or white outs, and if there were, the 15th generation copies would eliminate any possibility of proving them real by any standard. Where are Killians typists, orderlies etc to say they typed, were told to type or file these papers? CBS was GROSSLY NEGLEGENT!

In essence, they lie and now must cry.
61 posted on 09/13/2004 4:58:58 PM PDT by Henchman (Demand an inquiry by the media into Kerry's dealing with the VC in PARIS!)
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To: John Thornton
You know.. this is very much sounding Nixonian.. Friday was jarring.. twi1ight zone.. sort of odd behavior.. but I tuned in today fu11y expecting to see them throw in the towe11.

I was shocked to see Dan attempt to get answers again to the Bogus questions raised by these fraudu1ent documents..

Which it seems this is the on1y purpose of revisiting this issue.. but..

Where are the CBS executives? Where are the shareho1ders? I was ta1king to another FReeper.. who ca11ed and ta1ked to our 1oca1 paper about basing an artic1e on the o1d story today.. and they get it.. and wi11 be pub1ishing stuff about the prob1ems tomarrow.

a11 of this hanging on a not being ab1e to use a "1" as an e11 in a "modern" document..

Pro11y have to give Rush credit for his theory about Dan becoming everything he supposed1y hates.

Oh by the way.. must be getting near Christmas.. no e11.. Bwa Ha Ha Ha...

62 posted on 09/13/2004 5:00:02 PM PDT by dalight
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To: MindBender26
I saw Dan in person not long ago. Passed him on a narrow hallway.

ah -- drop by 524?

63 posted on 09/13/2004 5:00:37 PM PDT by dep (Ense Petit Placidam Sub Libertate Qvietem)
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To: dalight

1o1!!!!


64 posted on 09/13/2004 5:01:06 PM PDT by dfwgator (It's sad that the news media treats Michael Jackson better than our military.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Does anyone else find it telling that CBS finds memos it thinks contain the long sought but never seen smoking gun that Bush was a foul up and then claims that the content (that same long sought but never actually seen) itself proves that the memos are legit. It's like me searching the web and finding posts saying Clinton had people killed, and then saying that since I had expected to find that, it has to be true. Such obvious bias!


65 posted on 09/13/2004 5:03:29 PM PDT by pepsi_junkie (Often wrong, but never in doubt!)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
..strongly insist that the documents could have been created in the 1970s.

Yeah, and I guess Hitler *could* have written the secret Hitler diaries. After all, did anyone ever get Hitler under oath saying he didn't write them?

66 posted on 09/13/2004 5:03:58 PM PDT by John Thornton
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
No matter what happens to Rather and/or Cbs "news", two members of this forum, have taken a HUGE false story about President Bush and threw it in back in the face of discredited MSM, it is now a POSITIVE story favoring our President.

That is no SMALL feat and those responsible for this discovery and exposure should be very proud what they have done and have earned the gratitude of all who seek truth.

The further exposure of the bias of network news and ,in particular Rather and his 'network', and what becomes of them, is just going to be icing on this cake. It's not going to go away silently and it's going to very rewarding to just sit back and enjoy the process.

WELL DONE, FREEPERS
67 posted on 09/13/2004 5:06:24 PM PDT by RetSignman (Forever Optimistic)
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To: ServesURight

I don't think the Weekly World News is really interested in getting lumped into the same category as CBS, do you?


68 posted on 09/13/2004 5:06:25 PM PDT by MplsSteve
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To: noone
As far as I'm concerned, the weirdest thing about this story is the banality of the lie they tried to tell. The DNC's big story is that Bush served four years enthusiastically and was a goof-off in his last year. Even if it were true...who cares? What do they think is so earth-shattering about that allegation that they have to create false documents to prove it?

If you're going to forge a lie, make it sweet.

69 posted on 09/13/2004 5:06:25 PM PDT by prion (Yes, as a matter of fact, I AM the spelling police)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

70 posted on 09/13/2004 5:08:39 PM PDT by drwiii
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71 posted on 09/13/2004 5:10:05 PM PDT by jla
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

"CBS said it used several techniques to make sure the memos should be taken seriously"


What does that mean "should be taken seriously"? CBS had been saying they had used several techniques to make sure they were GENUINE. Now they have watered down the criteria to "should be taken seriously", a "passive-voice" construction that begs the question "taken seriously by whom"?

It seems that CBS is trying to lower the bar from "these documents are real" to "it was imporant to let the public judge for itself." Or is "taken seriously" intended to mean "passed off as genuine on network television news?"


72 posted on 09/13/2004 5:10:29 PM PDT by Flash Bazbeaux ("I'll have the moo goo gai pan without the pan, and some pans.")
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To: dalight

no, it's not using a 1 as an l. it's using an l as a 1. which was pretty clearly done in the documents. and which is an impediment to -- nothing. just smoke from cbs in an effort to confise and obfuscate.


73 posted on 09/13/2004 5:12:00 PM PDT by dep (Ense Petit Placidam Sub Libertate Qvietem)
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To: Henchman

"For instance, CBS said, the official record shows that Mr. Bush was suspended from flying on Aug. 1, 1972"

Another example of distortion. His flight physical expired on 31 July, so he was not "medically cleared" to fly after that date. His other quals should have been intact. "Suspension" is completely different and permanent, requiring a board of aviators to adjudicate.

If he spent a morning over at medical taking a physical, he's back in the airplane.


74 posted on 09/13/2004 5:13:40 PM PDT by Wristpin
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To: Criminal Number 18F; RatherBiased.com
To repeat myself from another thread (sorry), the question isn't does Danno have the confidence of his peers, nor is it does Danno have the confidence of his audience. The question is, does Danno have the confidence of SUMNER?

This has been a tough year for VIACON -- the Opie and Anthony fine, the problems with Howard Stern, The Reagans, Ms. Boob, the Spike TV/Spike Lee brouhaha, the resignation of the LEGENDARY Mel Karmazin, the spin-off of the suddenly obsolete Blockbuster, continuing woes at Paramount -- and through it all, like the flag over Ft. McHenry, SUMNER'S STILL THERE. What's one more problem when you've got ATTITUDE? (Never mind that you merely BOUGHT it.) Let us not forget that SUMNER'S as hard-core a liberal Democrat as they come, which means he could well be nodding at Danno's fibs in agreement, provided he doesn't nod off first.

No, we're talking two IMMORTALS. Because of SUMNER, DANNO STAYS.

P. S. Advertiser boycotts WILL NOT WORK. If the recent history of American commercial television says something, it's that ADVERTISERS WILL SPONSOR ANYTHING except the un-PC or after a major calamity. Most of corporate America's CEOs don't know what the heck they're sponsoring, and they want to keep it that way. And more than a few of their ad-vice-president factotums have come to view exercising good judgment as CENSORSHIP, never mind that they can do some heavy-duty censoring of their audience's discontent just by exercising the power of their purse.

75 posted on 09/13/2004 5:14:03 PM PDT by GeneD
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Ahhh... the celestial sound of CBS on a full-on internal struggle.

Stiffy Dan Rather has the management's boot up his ass in his future...

76 posted on 09/13/2004 5:21:13 PM PDT by El Conservador ("No blood for oil!"... Then don't drive, you moron!!!)
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To: Flash Bazbeaux
CBS said it used several techniques . . .

Forgery DOES take several techniques.

77 posted on 09/13/2004 5:21:55 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
CBS's logic just dumbfounds me. As proof of the legitimacy of these memos, CBS points to the fact that "official record shows that Mr. Bush was suspended from flying on Aug. 1, 1972. That date matches the one on a memo given to CBS News, ordering that Mr. Bush be suspended." Does it not occur to the brainiacs at CBS that the forger was aware of the suspension date (it was a matter of public record), and could intentionally have used the suspension date on the memo for legitimacy. If I wanted to forge a legitimate looking memo regarding a past event, I would most certainly date that memo either on or around the date of the event. The fact that the date on the memo is the same as the President's suspension date would lead me to further question the legitimacy of these memos. Also, it is a bit curious why an order per memorandum was executed on the same day (especially a government memo). Usually, it takes time for the memo to reach subordinates for action. I actually would have expected to see the memo dated a couple of days earlier than the actual date of suspension (if not much earlier).
78 posted on 09/13/2004 5:22:23 PM PDT by Galena Nevada (Matching Dates Cause for Concern)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
it's time to FREEP IBM!!! let them know you want THEM to clear up this mess and will hold them ACCOUNTABLE if they don't by never buying anything from IBM ever again!!!

goto IBM.com and ust Contact Us at the bottom of the page.

79 posted on 09/13/2004 5:22:46 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist ©®)
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To: sinkspur
So the CBS website is more suspicious of the documents than CBS News is?

Reading this story, I'm getting the feeling that CBS News is trying to distance itself from Dan Rather.

80 posted on 09/13/2004 5:23:46 PM PDT by PJ-Comix (I hereby nominate Buckhead as the FREEPER OF THE YEAR!!!)
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