New Questions On Bush Guard Duty [CBS USES FORGERIES TO SMEAR THE PRESIDENT!!!!!]

CBS ^ | 9/10/04 | Staff

[TastyManatees]

New Questions On Bush Guard Duty

CBS) The military records of the two men running for president have become part of the political arsenal in this campaign – a tool for building up, or blowing up, each candidate’s credibility as America's next commander-in-chief.

While Sen. Kerry has been targeted for what he did in Vietnam, President Bush has been criticized for avoiding Vietnam by landing a spot in the Texas Air National Guard - and then failing to meet some of his obligations.

Did then-Lt. Bush fulfill all of his military obligations? And just how did he land that spot in the National Guard in the first place? Correspondent Dan Rather has new information on the president’s military service – and the first-ever interview with the man who says he pulled strings to get young George W. Bush into the Texas Air National Guard.

...

But 60 Minutes has obtained a number of documents we are told were taken from Col. Killian's personal file. Among them, a never-before-seen memorandum from May 1972, where Killian writes that Lt. Bush called him to talk about "how he can get out of coming to drill from now through November."

Lt. Bush tells his commander "he is working on a campaign in Alabama…. and may not have time to take his physical." Killian adds that he thinks Lt. Bush has gone over his head, and is "talking to someone upstairs."

Col. Killian died in 1984. 60 Minutes consulted a handwriting analyst and document expert who believes the material is authentic.

[Bogey78O]

No need for the swipe.

[silverleaf]

"The rank abbreviations used in the memos are wrong - Or maybe my mind is wrong about when the military changed the rank abbreviations. But best I can remember they are as follows: 2LT; 1LT; CPT; MAJ; LTC; COL; Etc. I do not think any military person would use the abbreviations as indicated in the memos. If this person was the commander he would have used LTC, Commanding for his signature block."

You're Army, right? The abbreviations you use are a giveaway.

In USAF from the 1970s, as I used them, it was 2Lt, 1Lt, Capt, Maj, LtCol or LTCol, Col or COL, etc. NO Lt Colonel would have typed "1st Lt" Bush!!!

Lt Col Killian would have signed his name (even in private memos he was writing for himself) as shown in the one authentic document used for comparison.
J. Killian, LtCol, USAF (or TexANG?)
Commander

However, your point is valid. The memos did not use the typical USAF abbreviations for rank, nor did the memo writer format the signature block as a commander would do.
And he would not have typed 111 F.I.S. - no one used periods.

[Rightwing Conspiratr1]

Both IBM Selectric typewriters (1961) and the earlier IBM Executive (1950s) could use proportionately spaced fonts.

[MistyCA]

Thanks for your input.

[CedarDave]

I presume this is the typewriter you are talking about (from a 1953 ad):

[CobaltBlue]

I have a call in to an old friend who teaches printing and collects old typewriters, and my mom, who used to be a typesetter.

Someone out in Blogland has an IBM Executive Typewriter and will set us straight about superscripted "th" and the curly apostrophes eventually.

[FLAMING DEATH]

Interesting take, but I just retyped the paragraph with Open Office in standard 12 point with margins on the default setting and guess what? Every single line break matched perfectly, just like the gentleman who re-typed the letter in Microsoft Word. All I'd have had to do would have been to print it out and run it through the copier 10 times or so to make an exact duplicate of this.

My question...how did this person find Times Roman font and know exactly how both Open Office and Microsoft Word would format each line almost 20 years before they were invented?

Fascinating.

[silverleaf]

"Harris gave me a message today from Grip (a headquarters unit) regarding Bush's OETR (officer efficiency training report) and Stuart is pushing to sugar coat it. Bush wasn't here during rating period and I don't have any comments from 187th in Alabama. I will not rate"

Did anyone here from the USAF in the 70's ever hear of an OETR? I never heard them called anything except "OER's".

[TastyManatees]

Really. Enlighten the rest of us. Preferrably, drop us a link to some available product info to back it up. I've noticed a few people here in agreement as to that statement, but all I've been able to discover so far is one top-o-da-line Selectric Composer model that could accomplish proportionate spacing.

[Cboldt]

Yes, that one, or one of it's earlier incarnations. The "Executive" came in Model A, Model B, Model C, and the picture you have there is a Model D. BTW, I'm learning as I go on this, not a typewriter expert by any stretch! I did find a website that has manuals for these typewriters, but so far haven't found any material that conclusively shows availability of a "superscript th" character.

However, based on comments from credible folks here, who have personal experience, I am inclined to think that such a character was available. I don't take either the proportional spacing or the "superscript th" as conclusive evidence of forgery.

[Poohbah]

No need for the swipe.

Hey, the Air Force got the USMC good after 9/11:

Marine General: "We've eviscerated the Taliban in Kandahar."

Air Force General on Meet the Depressed: "Gosh, I didn't know Marines knew how to spell 'eviscerated,' let alone use it in a sentence!"

BTW, as a former Marine, I thought that was funny.

BTW, I first heard "Air Farce" from an airman.

[jimbo123]

60 Minutes Spokesperson: Kelli Edwards 212-975-6795

[Seeking the truth]

I don't mind you taking the "Devil's Advocate" position. I do that myself very often.

However, please refer to this link:

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardaugust18.pdf

Since it is a PDF doc, enlarge the doc and look at the letter "y" in the word obviously (line1) and compare that "y" in the word today (line 5)

Putting aside the debate what kind of IBM typewriter it was, does this difference in font indicate that, at a minumum, this doc was altered?

By Whom?

Why?

Altered by Killian?

[mabelkitty]

I brought this over here in case you guys missed it regarding redacted government documents and CBS may be vouching for faxed copies instead of originals.

---

I received a copy of my grandmother's social security number application, and her parents names were blacked out for privacy reasons (policy in case they were still alive).
I had no way at all of getting that information from under the black mark.

However.

If I type a letter, print it on paper with a laser printer and black mark out with a Sharpie, the laser printed part "rises" above the black marker ink. I've not scanned something like this, but I would assume the scan would remove the black mark from the raised laser on the page. I've also not tried faxing such a document.

These documents may have been faxed and received by CBS. The background marks and obviously shoddy redact on the address are just too interesting.

[MistyCA]

The Clintonites do not want Kerry to win, imo. But I am sure they know the scrutiny those letters would receive and are probably sitting around laughing right now.

[Kaslin]

I did a screen capture of the signatures and pated them to a new image using Paintshop pro for you to compare. One has to be blind not to see the difference.

[rolling_stone]

Authentic documents released by the military for that period show him living at "2910 Westheimer Rd Apt 4" in 1972. Bush lived at Longmont from 1968 to 1970 when he moved to a location at 5320 Beverly Hill Street, according to the pentagon records. He then moved to Westheimer in 1972 according to the mailing addresses on the pentagon records.

This seems like solid evidence of a forgery, do you have a link to show the military documents with date and addresses? thanks good work...

[TaxRelief]

The "no-print" latch was there in 1968/69. You pressed the backspace key while the "no print" latch was on, to get to the right place. The typewriter had a memory system so it knew how far to jump back each time you pressed the backspace key.

Here's some technical info pdf and this

Do I think it is possible that the National Guard had this "professional typewriter" in '72? It had been available for at least 3 years, and if you were accurate, it was easy to use.

[CedarDave]

No need to get testy over this. Check out this link:

http://www.etypewriters.com/a-thumb.htm

[lainie]

So-called Squadron letterhead printed by typewriter? With its address listed as a P.O. Box!?

Memo Subject: "CYA" ??

This is CRAP.