Posted on 08/26/2004 4:36:06 PM PDT by Shermy
PORTLAND, Ore. - A swiftboat crewman decorated in the 1969 Vietnam incident where John Kerry (news - web sites) won a Bronze Star says not only did they come under enemy fire but also that his own boat commander, who has challenged the official account, was too distracted to notice the gunfire.
Retired Chief Petty Officer Robert E. Lambert, of Central Point, Ore., got a Bronze Star for pulling his boat commander — Lt. Larry Thurlow — out of the Bay Hap River on March 13, 1969. Thurlow had jumped onto another swiftboat to aid sailors wounded by a mine explosion but fell off when the out-of-control boat ran aground.
Thurlow, who has been prominent among a group of veterans challenging the Democratic presidential candidate's record, has said there was no enemy fire during the incident. Lambert, however, supports the Navy account that says all five swiftboats in the task force "came under small arms and automatic weapon fire from the river banks" when the mine detonated.
"I thought we were under fire, I believed we were under fire," Lambert said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.
"Thurlow was far too distracted with rescue efforts to even realize he was under fire. He was concentrating on trying to save lives."
The anti-Kerry group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, has been running television ads challenging the Navy account of the boats being under fire. Kerry has condemned the ads as a Republican smear campaign.
A career military man, Lambert is no fan of Kerry's either. He doesn't like Kerry's post-Vietnam anti-war activity and doesn't plan to vote for him.
"I don't like the man himself," Lambert said, "but I think what happened happened, and he was there."
A March 1969 Navy report located by The Associated Press this week supports Lambert's version. The report twice mentions the incident and both times calls it "an enemy initiated firefight" that included automatic weapons fire and underwater mines used against a group of five boats that included Kerry's.
Kerry's Bronze Star was awarded for his pulling Special Forces Lt. Jim Rassmann, who had been blown off the boat, out of the river. Rassmann, who is retired and lives in Florence, Ore., has said repeatedly that the boats were under fire, as have other witnesses. Lambert didn't see that rescue because Kerry was farther down the river and "I was busy pulling my own boat officer (Thurlow) out of the water."
Thurlow could not be reached for comment about Lambert's recollections.
But speaking for the Swift Boat Veterans group, Van Odell, who was in the task force that day, remembers it differently from Lambert.
"When they're firing, you can hear the rounds hit the boat or buzz by your head. There was none of that," he said in a telephone interview from Katy, Texas, where he lives.
Lambert said the swiftboats were on their way out of the river when a mine exploded under one, PCF-3.
"When they blew the 3-boat, everyone opened up on the banks with everything they had," he said. "That was the normal procedure. When they came after you, they came after you. Somebody on shore blew that mine."
"There was always a firefight" after a mine detonation, he said.
"Kerry was out in front of us, on down the river. He had to come back up the river to get to us."
Lambert retired in 1978 as a chief petty officer with 22 years of service and three tours in Vietnam. He does not remember ever meeting Kerry.
I understand him being vague.
Thank you for those insights. I wouldn't have gotten there on my own.
I would wager that Lambert's Bronze Star citation recites the presence of enemy fire, while he pulled Thurlow out of the drink. SOmebody else would have been in the wheel house then, unless PCF-51 was anchored.
Anyway, I cut him slack, as I do Rood and all of the others (although Rassmann is rubbing me pretty strong the wrong way). Lambert is in a tough spot, and he really didn't ask for it.
The broken windows did occur the previous day.
Who thinks his credibility is shattered besides us? Do you really think that moderates are saying to themselves Kerry's credibility is gone? The fense sitters are right now wondering about whether or not to VOTE for Kerry, Bush doesn't even enter the equation!
If Kerry's tanking so bad because of this, why are virtually ALL the polls basically putting the two at EVEN right now? That's my point!!
Do you really think that moderates are saying to themselves Kerry's credibility is gone?
Yes, a certain percentage of them are which are affecting the polls.
What can-of-worms is this opening for the entire war metals decorating system in the military? If officers like Kerry could write medals requests like punching out donuts, how many other war veterans got medals for favors? I can see those medals for heroism losing their value like so many counterfeit coins.
This will go down in history as Medalgate.
Those war veterans who got medals for real heroism should be waking up to the reality of what Kerry did. I am waiting for things to go ballistic once it is realized that Kerry used the system for his own selfish brat ends and compromised the value for everyone.
Where do you get the 5 km distance?
By the way, what is the penalty for submitting false medal decorations reports for his entire swift boat crew? What is the penalty for using your position as an officer to submit your own false medal decoration reports?
The correct answer: You lose your medals and you lose the presidency
LOL!
Now wait a sec. In one of the latest attack ads against Bush, doesn't Rasmussen say that he was the only one in the river? Doesn't he go on to further state that anyone who says differently is a liar?
Pretending Bush, the dumbest President in history is the mastermind behind these highly effective attacks on Kerry is just too fun resist.
The sticker serves 2 purposes:
1 - Shows visible support for "Swift Boat Veterans For Truth" to passing motorists
2 - Gets the swiftvets.com website visible to the public, so they can and find out more about 'Hanoi John' Kerry
Made by fellow FReeper disabled vet who has a bone to pick with Kerry, like we all do!
Large (24" Wide 12" Tall) like mine
Small (12" Wide 6" Tall)
Profits go to SwiftVets.com
FReep mail for details.
Talk about this LIVE NOW ON SYNDICATED RADIO SHOW. 18008505043 TALKONE.COM
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Doesn't sound very convinced, does he?
They've moved on from the 'enemy fire' discussion, unless the media brings it up. Their newest two commercials are about Kerry's trashing of the soldiers AFTER he came home. It looks like they are doing a progression of ads folloing a timeline from his actions in Vietnam, to his testimony before Congress. I hope they'll do one on his 'secret negotiations' with the North Vietnamese in Paris, then his using his new found fame, won on the backs of the vests he trashed, to get into politics. I believe it will round out the picture of a man who would do ANYTHING and hurt ANYONE to get what he wants. I dont' think folks will want that kind of man for President.
I think the debate over who got what for bravery is a loser.
It's Kerry's purple heart that's the issue. His ticket home, his bug out contrary to the affect of duty he tries to sell.
The only ball that Bush is rolling is one with his lawyers to the court house to stop the Swift Boat ads, which have done more to help him than any other $$$ campaign ad. He's an idiot for doing so, and if some liberal judge orders an end to the ads (via an immediate injunction), Bush will have cut off one of the most effective tools that would have guaranteed his re-election. I can't put on this forum what I think of McCain and Bush's pandering to him.
The evidence points to the Swiftee's being right again and the poodle's supporter being wrong.
Yes, go to their website and under "Topics" go to "TV Ads and Videos".
Or just click here:
http://www2.swiftvets.com/index.php?topic=Ads
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