Real Seals Say Kerry Is Legend In His Own Mind

Apparently, the latest version of Kerry's Cambodia Chronicles includes the insertion of Navy SEALs by Swift boat into Cambodia in the early part of 1969. Well, I am a former Navy SEAL that served in the 1990s, my father in law is a former SEAL and he served in the Mekong Delta in Vietnam in 1970. I spoke with him about the likelihood that this story could be correct. My contention was that Swift boats were too large to be routinely used as an insertion platform for SEALs.

SEALs typically used the Medium SEAL Support Craft (MSSC) or the LSSC. My dad's platoon, had one of each assigned. These boats were designed by SEALs and specially built for the Teams to use on clandestine riverine insertions at night of usually no more than 8 operators. Swift boats operated in groups as independent entities, and not as insertion/extraction platforms for small units.

Jim Rassman's ODA was probably on there because SF A teams don't have organic boat assets and were using the Swifties because they had no other means of getting where they needed to go. Also, it is my understanding that the engagement with Kerry getting the Bronze Star took place during the day, which leads me to believe the insertion mission was either a large infantry force led by the SF guys, or a civic action type mission for which SF is well known.

Waterborne infiltrations done illegally into a "neutral" country if performed would be done by small groups of operators (less than 8), at night, in a small tributary, by a boat with a very shallow draft and jacuzzi, not propeller drive. To do otherwise, would be ridiculous.

SEALs also did not trust anyone outside of their immediate peer group. They developed their own intel by snatching high ranking VC out of their beds in the middle of the night. They did not share this info outside the platoon, boat guys, and Seawolves helo crews (close fire support assets). They learned early on that passing intel up the chain was a sure way to be compromised on future operations.

In order to get permission to conduct an illegal incursion into Cambodia by Swift boat the following must occur: 1. Extremely fresh intel of a high value target (think U.S. POW, or VC chieftain). 2. Take that intel outside the group and up to intel at a higher level (risking compromise) in order to obtain boat support from the Swifties to go into Cambodia. That is extremely unlikely to the point of absurdity.

Furthermore, neither myself or my father in law knows anyone who was inserted anywhere by a Swift boat during Vietnam. It just wasn't done. It wasn't something SEALs wanted, and it wasn't something Swifties did.

The nail is hit squarely upon the head. None of the Kerry tale passes the smell test: How many barstool-warriors have we come upon that embellish and stretch the truth of their exploits beyond the breaking point? Usually we give these guys a wide berth and let them have their mostly harmless fantasy. But most guys don't hold the reigns of power and most guys aren't responsible for deploying the US military. And while most guys like that might be living in an alcoholic delusion, they aren't delusional US Presidents nor are they delusional US Senators.

This clown is not just embarassing, he is dangerous. Thanks to you--Hugh Hewitt, Captain's Quarters, A Collection of Thoughts, Just One Minute, and many others--for spreading the story.

At 15:21, Alec Rawls said... Insertion lie not proven yet, but you are adding weight to the expectation. Welcome to the blogosphere good buddy.

At 15:42, Robert Dawson said... Good luck and thanks for your service. Glad you can keep serving this country by debunking a fallacy being pushed for political purposes. I'm going to link to you on my blog because you seem to have the "bottom line" on why he just cannot possibly be telling the truth.

At 15:49, PBRMan said...
I am totally convinced that Kerry is lying about this and other matters. However, while I have no knowledge about Swift operations (if any) with SEALs, I can tell you that I personally inserted and retracted SEAL ambush teams in the delta from a PBR at least a dozen times from 9/67 to 9/68. I did these both on the Co Chien River, operating out of Vinh Long, and on the Bassac out of Binh Thuy.

At 16:00, Richard said...
Matthew, a quick question if that's ok. Since there are numerous "Navy SEALS" running around out there, is it possible for you to let folks know what BUD/S class you graduated from and/or which Teams you served with?

on topic though, you are correct and as you know most people in SBU know as well that swiftboats were ill suited for many portions of the Mekong area, thats why the flat bottom PBR's were used (no screw to get tangled up as well). Swiftboats were loud and poorly suited for covert usage in my view. I'm sure Dick Marcinko and others of his era could shed more light on this as well.

At 16:43, www.brightwinger.com/blogs said... As a SEAL how likely is it that a CIA operative would give Kerry part of his camouflage (his hat) just as he is about to embark on a clandestine mission into enemy territory?

At 18:03, pst314 said...
Eye-opening observations. Thank you, and thank you for your service, sir.

At 19:10, Jules said...
Thank you for posting! I love it when military members/vets write, it isn't the same hearing information from people who didn't "live" the stuff they are talking about. Thank you again sir, for your service and for taking time to get credible information onto the 'net.

Hugh Hewitt (on news that the Sunday papers are coming to the 'rescue' of Kerry): Americans don't tolerate posers, especially posers who keep changing the pose. The many lives of John Kerry came into focus this week, and we haven't even begun to see the "nculear freeze" Kerry of 1984, or the Sandinista-supporting Kerry of the following years. We have had a glimpse of the "cut-the-intelligence-budget-by-50%" Kerry, and we have seen both the reduce the forces on the Korean peninsula Kerry and the Kerry outraged by such cuts.
John Kerry will say any damn thing he thinks will get him ahead. And it began in Vietnam in 1968, and you suspect it made it into his citations, and you know for sure it made it onto the floor of the Senate in 1986. He'll be whomever he needs to be to move on up, taking whatever position needs to be taken to get there.
Show me the Sunday paper story that can turn a known liar into a trustworthy spokesman. It doesn't exist.
For the percentage of America that so hates George W. Bush that they'd vote again even for the know widely-recognized-to-be-out-of-control Al Gore, none of this matters. Sure they are out there, and perhaps number even 10% of the electorate judging by ticket sales to F911. And then there are the folks who just pull the D lever, no matter how weird the nominee.
But I think there are millions of 9/11 Democrats, represented by RogerLSimon and others I suspect most of these people have kids or grandkids and understand we are in the fight of our lives --and their lives. And they aren't interesting in putting into the White House a man without a core, as Morton Kondracke put it to me today, or a fraud, as I have come to understand him.
John Kerry had his big moment --a brief period in which the control of the setting and the editing allowed him to project the life as he wishes it were seen by all people and at all times. Even at that moment he didn't carry a majority, and now that moment is gone --smashed in fact. And ten Sunday paper scoops won't put it back.

Instapundit (a great read) find the NYT with their knickers down - again):

MORE SLOPPY AND UNSUBSTANTIATED CHARGES THIS POLITICAL SEASON: They're from the New York Times, which writes:

In fairness to Mr. Kerry, his aides were faced with a strategic dilemma that has become distressingly familiar to campaigns in this era when so much unsubstantiated or even false information can reach the public through so many different forums, be it blogs or talk-show radio. As is usual with such big-media comments about unsubstantiated information on blogs, no examples are given. (Specific examples with hyperlinks are for those evil blogs, not Big Media!) As reader Richard Kleiner emails:

A couple of thoughts here:

Could you imagine the NY Times sneering at the blogosphere's coverage of the Trent Lott affair as "unsubstantiated and even false?" As I recall, blogs were hailed as heroic for pointing out something out that was public record, but which the Big Media studiously ignored.

Apparently, reading old copies of the Congressional Record when the New York Times can't or won't now constitutes pedding "unsubstantiated and even false" information.

Indeed.

A VERY INTERESTING PIECE OF INFORMATION THAT WILL LIKELY SOON ADD TO THE KERRY BONFIRE (credit to Instapundit's Glenn Reynolds):

TOM MAGUIRE NOTES that the Kerry campaign has inadvertently endorsed the Swiftboatvets ad. He also observes:

It has been widely reported that Kerry was honorably discharged prior to becoming a war protestor. Not So! When Kerry was meeting with the North Vietnamese, accusing his fellow officers of war crimes, and meeting with a group that discussed the assassination of US Senators, he was an officer in the Naval Reserve. This was only acknowledged by the Kerry campaign in May of this year, correcting a phony Harvard Crimson interview from January 1970. Readers of the NY Times, the LA Times, and the Boston Globe are in for a surprise.

MY COMMENT: OOPS!!!

More information on that in this earlier post from Maguire, who has been tracking this issue for a while, and with far more dedication than the Big Media outlets mentioned above.

As I've said before, the medals are a distraction, and Kerry's real problems lie elsewhere. So expect the pro-Kerry spin to involve a lot of talking about the medals, as if that were the only issue.

posted at 08:58 AM by Glenn Reynolds

GRIDLEY Crew members (67-68) say Kerry exaggerated in TOUR OF DUTY

"...John Kerry and I were shipmates in the guided missile cruiser USS
Gridley (CG-21) in 1967 and 1968. He served as First Lieutenant, the
officer in charge of the deck division, and I was Executive Officer,
or second in command..."

"...But there is also no doubt in my mind that his anti-war
activities while our troops were still fighting, dying and being
tortured in filthy Vietnam prisons were despicable.

For that reason, even aside from his anti-defense voting record in
the Senate, he is one ex-shipmate that I could never support as
commander-in-chief of the armed forces."

J. F. Kelly, Jr.

USS Gridley (CG-21) Executive Officer in 1967 and 1968.

GRIDLEY Website page on John Kerry

http://home.nycap.rr.com/pwcarter/the%20kerry%20page.html

Other crew members speak about John Kerry

(Looks like Kerry's shipmates, who did serve with him,
say he lied and told whoopers about his time on the GRIDLEY.

Remember these are not Swift Boat Vets,

BUT Kerry's crewmates who served with him on the GRIDLEY)

Examples follow:

"As everyone must surely know by now, John F. Kerry came on board
GRIDLEY as a boot Ensign when we returned from our 1967 Westpac
Cruise. He remained on GRIDLEY through the 1968 cruise. Politics
aside, shipmates of the time who have read TOUR OF DUTY, the
authorized campaign biography, will have something to say about the
chapter on GRIDLEY. "

1. Kerry never talked about his time on GRIDLEY. He says on page
74 that it is because “nothing much of note” happened while
he was
onboard. He uses words like monotony and tedious, when, despite
being a boot ensign he was given every opportunity for responsibility
by Captain Slifer and Commander Kelly (XO). He came aboard
designated for Electrical Officer (80100), a grunt position in the
Engineering Department and spent four months in that position. He
was assigned duty as First Lieutenant, as Commander Kelly recalls,
because of his knowledge of seamanship and his experiences with small
boats and sailing. Besides being responsible for the decks of the
ship, the First Lieutenant is also responsible for the ship’s
small
boats. He also was assigned collateral duties as Public Affairs
Officer. Despite all the responsibilities he was given, he gives the
impression that serving on GRIDLEY was somehow beneath him. He
certainly had less of an opportunity to collect “gongs” there.

2. Page 78 – “motivate 400 swabbies” – The First
Lieutenant is
responsible only for the personnel of 1st Division, not the entire
crew. 1st Division had a roster of about 30 in 1968. To the extent
that other divisions had responsibility for deck space, their
officers would have been responsible for motivating them.

3. Page 87 has Kerry “shuttling sailors and provisions”
between
GRIDLEY and KITTY HAWK in a small motor whaleboat out in the Gulf of
Tonkin. The regular method of travel between the two ships was via
helo. That is how I went over to the KITTY HAWK. If such an event
did occur, it would have been unusual and hardly a shuttle.

4. Later on page 87 Kerry talks about Olongapo in the Philippines.
He talks about bloated corpses floating in the river and starving
women with babies dying of malnutrition. Now Olongapo was a wild and
wooly town that existed solely for the entertainment of the US Navy,
but in over three years of calling there, I never saw a single
instance of either thing happening. Kerry uncovered this in his
first visit. If this was from his letters home then he was certainly
writing for dramatic effect. Balderdash.

5. The trip to Danang – GRIDLEY went into Danang for briefings
before going to Northern SAR. This section is so full of hyperbole
that the urge to giggle is almost uncontrollable. “The panic and
pressure onboard GRIDLEY, strapping on a .45, wondering if I would
have to use it, B-52’s howling overhead”. A B-52 over Danang
would
have been so high that only contrails would have been visible, cloud
cover permitting. David Simons confirmed my recollection that during
our brief stay in Danang Harbor, the sky was overcast to the point of
being ominous.

More seriously, no one can remember John Kerry going ashore. I was
part of the shore party that went to Monkey Mountain. We were taken
in a screened in truck (to protect against grenades being tossed in)
and made to unload our .45’s. The driver said that he did not
want
us newbies to shoot anyone by accident.

Neither Commander Kelly nor LCDR Rueckert (Kerry’s immediate
boss)
can recall approving a trip ashore for Ensign Kerry. The author uses
remarks of David Simons IC2 as a lead in to the Danang section. I
spoke to David and he has no personal knowledge of Kerry going ashore
at all. He did talk to a researcher and made some generic remarks
about Danang but had never discussed Danang with Kerry. He recalls
arguing with the researcher because he tried to put the
words “cowboy” in his mouth, which ended up in the book.

There is no mystery about the “gruesome site of a pile of dead
VC.”
We saw no sign of anything like this. However, our escort to Monkey
Mountain did tell us how the VC bodies were stacked up on the
LZ’s
after the TET Offensive, which had been several months before.
Ensign Kerry would have been told this story by members of the shore
party.

If, indeed, he got to the pier, because he was in charge of the
motor whaleboat, it certainly would not have been within his purview
to wander Danang, eating dog meat and drinking beer in a bar (under
arms). It also seems amazing that he had all these observations on
Vietnam in such a brief visit.

6. In command – Again with the hyperbole. Kerry makes much
about
being “in charge” of the ship after the Captain and XO. The
OOD is
in charge of the operation of the ship during his four hour watch but
hardly in charge of the ship. Kerry qualified almost immediately as
OOD(P), in port OOD but that is a given. For much of his time
onboard he would have been Junior Officer of the Deck when underway.
Although his fitness report as of 22 March says "he is qualified as
OOD(I) now" (Independent steaming – with no ships or land
anywhere
near) , only OOD(P) is listed under duties. His Fitness Report from
July 1968 lists two months as OOD(I) which would mean he qualified
after leaving the war zone.

More evidence that the Clintons may have had a hand in getting Kerry nominated.

Only mildly joking. But this guy certainly has a glass jaw!

He should have made his campaign more about his ability to marry well!

August 21, 2004
Kerry Exaggerations Not Limited To His Swift Boat Experience John Kerry undoubtedly has exaggerated or fabricated a number of his supposed experiences in his brief Swift-boat command, many of which I've covered on this blog. However, CQ reader Charles Moy points to a website for former crewmates of Kerry on board his first assignment, the USS Gridley, for their remembrances of his service -- and it turns out that Kerry's habitual self-aggrandisement extends there as well.

Former E-5 radarman Phil Carter posts a long letter explaining his service and impressions of John Kerry. Carter actually contributed to one of Kerry's Senate campaigns and paid him a visit in 1996. His personal recollections of Kerry seem innocuous and even endearing. However, Carter took the time to read Douglas Brinkley's hagiography, Tour of Duty, and objects to a number of misstatements and outright lies regarding Kerry's service:

When I read “Tour of Duty”, I became concerned because the material on Kerry’s time on GRIDLEY appeared in many instances to be exaggerations and in some cases figments of an overactive imagination. ...

4. Later on page 87 Kerry talks about Olongapo in the Philippines. He talks about bloated corpses floating in the river and starving women with babies dying of malnutrition. Now Olongapo was a wild and wooly town that existed solely for the entertainment of the US Navy, but in over three years of calling there, I never saw a single instance of either thing happening. Kerry uncovered this in his first visit. If this was from his letters home then he was certainly writing for dramatic effect. Balderdash. ...

5. The trip to Danang – GRIDLEY went into Danang for briefings before going to Northern SAR. This section is so full of hyperbole that the urge to giggle is almost uncontrollable. “The panic and pressure onboard GRIDLEY, strapping on a .45, wondering if I would have to use it, B-52’s howling overhead”. A B-52 over Danang would have been so high that only contrails would have been visible, cloud cover permitting. David Simons confirmed my recollection that during our brief stay in Danang Harbor, the sky was overcast to the point of being ominous.

More seriously, no one can remember John Kerry going ashore. I was part of the shore party that went to Monkey Mountain. We were taken in a screened in truck (to protect against grenades being tossed in) and made to unload our .45’s. The driver said that he did not want us newbies to shoot anyone by accident.

Neither Commander Kelly nor LCDR Rueckert (Kerry’s immediate boss) can recall approving a trip ashore for Ensign Kerry. The author uses remarks of David Simons IC2 as a lead in to the Danang section. I spoke to David and he has no personal knowledge of Kerry going ashore at all. He did talk to a researcher and made some generic remarks about Danang but had never discussed Danang with Kerry. He recalls arguing with the researcher because he tried to put the words “cowboy” in his mouth, which ended up in the book.

Not only does the candidate himself like to stretch the truth to the breaking point -- always to make himself look more manly, if you'll notice -- even his researchers press themselves to keep up. If Kerry never left the ship in Danang, then that calls Brinkley's work into question again. Did Brinkley or his researchers bother to fact-check anything from Kerry's journals?

There is no mystery about the “gruesome site of a pile of dead VC.” We saw no sign of anything like this. However, our escort to Monkey Mountain did tell us how the VC bodies were stacked up on the LZ’s after the TET Offensive, which had been several months before. Ensign Kerry would have been told this story by members of the shore party. It's just another example of John Kerry adapting someone else's experience into his own narrative. Carter finishes with a clarification about whether the US Navy leaves Ensigns in charge of its warships:

6. In command – Again with the hyperbole. Kerry makes much about being “in charge” of the ship after the Captain and XO. The OOD is in charge of the operation of the ship during his four hour watch but hardly in charge of the ship. Kerry qualified almost immediately as OOD(P), in port OOD but that is a given. For much of his time onboard he would have been Junior Officer of the Deck when underway. Although his fitness report as of 22 March says "he is qualified as OOD(I) now" (Independent steaming – with no ships or land anywhere near) , only OOD(P) is listed under duties. His Fitness Report from July 1968 lists two months as OOD(I) which would mean he qualified after leaving the war zone.

Carter insists that Kerry was a good officer and well liked during his tenure on the Gridley, but obviously Carter never saw what Kerry wrote into his journals. His eyes have been opened by the massive inconsistencies coming from Kerry and Brinkley about his service, a reaction that many of the people in Kerry's units have experienced once they've read his stories.

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