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Brats! Why Are So Many Parents Afraid To Say "No?"
LA Times, via Memphis Flyer ^ | July 30, 2004 | Martin Booe

Posted on 08/02/2004 5:49:37 AM PDT by BluegrassScholar

Edited on 08/02/2004 10:43:46 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

Carrie is 2 years old, with curly brown hair and Windex-blue eyes. In a still-life portrait, she would be adorable. In three dimensions, she's a cross between a Gerber baby and the Tasmanian devil. Bang. Bang, bang, bang, and bang and bang.

That's the noise of the plastic water cup she is whacking against the ceramic-topped table of a neighborhood coffeehouse whose concrete floors function like an echo chamber. If she had a hammer she would have destroyed the table by now, and I'm pretty sure her parents would've let her. People look up from their lattes, squint at the diminutive figure making the big, ear-splitting noise, and try to continue with their newspapers or conversations. The banging goes on for a good 10 minutes. Normally, I would say something -- I'm not shy about these things -- but I'm curious to know just how long her parents, with whom I'm having coffee, will let this go. The answer: Indefinitely. They don't even seem to notice. Maybe they're just used to it?

On some primal level, Carrie must be offended that she's not the center of attention. There is anger in her banging, along with what I read as malice. As she grows even more restive, her father lowers her to the floor. Still clutching the cup, Carrie crawls through the room, pounding on the concrete floor as she goes along, giving everyone an up-close earful of her drum solo.

A few weeks later, I'm at a party, mostly adults with a few kids sprinkled in, among them the volcanically unruly 5-year-old son of a friend. As I squat down to greet him, he responds by biting me in the arm, leaving teeth marks through a shirt and a sweater. I am just about to spank his little behind when I realize I'm in dangerous territory. People go to jail for that these days.

Full story . . .


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: brats; childrearing; parenting
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To: ShadowDancer

You sound like a good Mom. Thought this would be an interesting read for you.


161 posted on 08/02/2004 9:24:37 AM PDT by TomServo ("I'm so upset that I'll binge on a Saltine.")
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To: BluegrassScholar; All
If this thread proves anything, it's that there really is not one single discipline method that works for every child. One poster says "forget time outs!", another raves how they worked for her son. One poster scoffs at giving toddlers choices, another claims it made his four kids confident adults. Spank, don't spank. Talk, don't talk. Something I feel I'm learning as a parent is that it's really true that every child, like any other person, is different and will respond to different things.

I have a 2-1/2 yr old, a 14 mo. old, and another due any minute now. All girls. I admit, I struggle. I've used various methods with my oldest, from time out to swatting on the butt to 1-2-3 (which like some of you, I was using before I realized it was even a "method", ha-ha). One thing I have learned is that consistency is the key -- consistency of both consequences to bad behavior as well as consistency of environment. We get up about the same time each day, have meals together about the same time, and have a fairly set routine of bathtime-book time-bedtime. It seems to me that those parents who don't keep a somewhat predictable pattern to their child's day have a more difficult time than I do with discipline. This isn't to say I don't have issues, but it seems plain that "discipline" is more than just some magic word or action that you pull out when your kid misbehaves. It really encompasses the examples you set, the environment you provide, and the overall expectation you have of your child.

Ever heard the saying "I was a much better parent before I had kids." I try to remember that a tantrum I see for 5 minutes in the grocery store doesn't necessarily equate to someone's entire discipline philosophy. You never know when you're just seeing a bad 5 minutes. I've had bad moments in public; I've had other times when people will compliment by daughter's "perfect behavior." I've had friends ask me for advice on how to deal with their toddlers, this after I might have had what seems to be one of the frustrating days ever! I don't know.... consistency seems to be key, overall.

162 posted on 08/02/2004 9:24:41 AM PDT by workerbee
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Comment #163 Removed by Moderator

To: em2vn

My favorite was (and still is) "Shut up/behave/put that down/pick that up/insert order here, or I will smack you so hard, your name will swell."


164 posted on 08/02/2004 9:29:42 AM PDT by Xenalyte (And then I says, "Tell me I'm wrong!" and he says, "I can't, baby, 'cause you're NOT!")
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To: NCjim

I'm finding restaurants right here in Houston that allow well-behaved dogs to accompany their people to dinner, on the outside patio of course.


165 posted on 08/02/2004 9:31:03 AM PDT by Xenalyte (And then I says, "Tell me I'm wrong!" and he says, "I can't, baby, 'cause you're NOT!")
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To: BluegrassScholar
I raised 2 rough and rowdy boys and my cardinal, unbreakable rule was that in public they were to act like angels. If they didn't I gave them the death look and they knew they were in for it when we got home. At home they couldn't just do anything but I was much more relaxed. My boys were very popular and well-known for their good behaviour.

My ridiculous horror story is a 2 yr old who wouldn't quit honking the horn of the car so they disconnected the horn instead of telling him no.

166 posted on 08/02/2004 9:33:04 AM PDT by tiki
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To: Tuscaloosa Goldfinch
My wife and I have a daughter (7 yoa) and son (4 yoa). The daughter has neurotic little episodes where she thinks the whole world must revolve around her. The son has the energy level of the Energizer Bunny on 'roids and is more of an acting up ham that any 100 vaudeville comedians.

We're regularly embarrassed (sometimes mortified) by their antics. We administer more discipline (including spankings) than any parent(s) that we know of.

To add much needed perspective for us: We're complimented by almost every parent that our kids are amongst the most well behaved children they know. My mom laughs and tells me how our son acts exactly like I did at that age.

I think in the long run it will benefit our children that my wife and I were late in life children of Great Depression era parents and we had our children later in life.

And being a 43 year old, keeping up with kids that age, will either keep you young or kill you!

167 posted on 08/02/2004 9:38:27 AM PDT by Ghengis
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To: netmilsmom

My twins are/were bears.

My son has always been great.

The only thing is that both of them almost died when they were little. They both had speech problems. One started talking at 3 and the other is still not talking well at almost 8. The one has severe speech problems because of brain damage.

There were many stores that I walked out of because of a screaming child. The one with severe speech problems didn't talk (except for a few words) until she was 4 1/2. At 4 1/2 she finally learned how to say "I want....". At first, I gave in everytime. She'd say "I want a cookie." I would be so excited that she talked that I gave her a cookie. Well, after a few months of this, I realized I was creating a monster, and I started saying no.

One day we were at a restaurant and she wanted a soda. I didn't want her having one, and I said no. She totally lost it. She's was a big girl, and I couldn't just scoop her up and carry her like you do with a 2 year old having a tantrum. I dragged her out of the restaurant. I had to restrain her by straddling her because she was running into the parking lot. I think she screamed for 20 minutes there. I finally got her to our car, and she screamed for another 30 minutes. She wouldn't stay buckled in her booster seat. I had people calling her a brat. It was loads of fun.

That was the worst tantrum. We are definely past that stage.

We went to one psychologist who started mentioning medication right away. She also recommended this book "The Explosive Child". The book talked about getting children to communicate to keep them from tantruming. I would have (and still would) love to have my daughter be able to communicate fully with me.

My best advice to a parent with a troubled kid is to find one behavior that is horrible and fix that. That's been how I handled my daughter. I didn't focus on little things like the fact that she didn't pick up her toys. I focused on big things like running into the middle of the street without looking. I also made "no" mean "no". We walked out of restaurants, movies, and parks because of bad behavior. I never wanted my kids misbehavior to affect other people.

We still have a long way to go, and I am absolutely dreading the teenage years. At least, my daughter should be able to talk better by then.


168 posted on 08/02/2004 9:40:22 AM PDT by luckystarmom
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To: BluegrassScholar
We were at a Sizzler Restaurant where we were seated at a table in the center of the restaurant. Toward the back was a group with just as many children as we have. They were screaming, yelling, just making a ruckus. Next to them was a small family -- a couple and their daughter. The couple had a look of annoyance on their faces about the other group. The man then looked toward our table, had a look of amazement on his face and pointed us out to his wife. I am not even sure he noticed four children sitting at our table until that moment. There have been many times when people have gotten up to leave at a restaurant saw our table and came over to say they had not even known there were children at the table, since they were so well behaved.
I do remember my third son being horrid one time. My husband promptly took him outside and walked him outside the restaurant. It was my son's second birthday and too.
169 posted on 08/02/2004 9:41:16 AM PDT by HungarianGypsy
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To: backinthefold

bump later


170 posted on 08/02/2004 9:42:29 AM PDT by don-o (Stop Freeploading. Do the right thing and sign up for a monthly donation.)
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To: Brett66
Absolutely, if your their friend, you'll smoke dope with them, get a stupid tattoo on your butt, etc

We have already told our daughter that if she gets a tattoo, we are ALL going to get the same tattoo.

171 posted on 08/02/2004 9:46:03 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: GOP Soccer Mom

BTW, here's a story that usually upsets a few people. (but, my husband can be very abrupt, so...) A couple months ago my husband had stopped at Wal-Mart to grab a shirt, since he had other errands to run and didn't want to be in uniform the whole time. Going down one aisle he saw a 6 year old girl (not very little, either) climb up her mother, grab her by the collar and yell, "You're going to get me that toy NOW!!" The mother was either trying to reason or not do anything. As my husband passed he shook his head and said, "You really need to beat your kids more." (btw, he doesn't beat our kids, but he does discipline and definitely spanks when needed)


172 posted on 08/02/2004 9:49:28 AM PDT by HungarianGypsy
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To: booann777
Looking for pointers from this most wise group...

They are NOT your children and outside your realm. That is, however, your husband and you need to read him the riot act. Most of all, quit buying junk feed for the deadbeats. You are enabling them. Make it hard on them and they will leave.

173 posted on 08/02/2004 9:55:32 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: backinthefold
I know what you mean. Once I was on a crowded elevator with a mom who had several children with her, one in her arms. One of the older kids was being ornery.

When the elevator door opened, no one could get out until the ornery kid got out of the way. But despite being told to go, he balked -- so the mom gave him a little shove with her foot.

Immediately an outraged career-type woman huffed, "How dare you kick that child!" (It wasn't a "kick.")

I asked her if she had any kids. She didn't answer but I told her to lay off anyway.

174 posted on 08/02/2004 9:55:39 AM PDT by shhrubbery!
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To: John Robertson

That's exactly the lesson I learned, and it is what I should have done at the time. Last summer I called 9-11 when a different neighbor left her kids--the oldest was four--alone in her apartment for three hours. (The mother didn't come home until the next day.) The police arrived within five minutes of my calling and they immediately summoned CPS. There was no food in the house and all three kids were in diapers that were probably a day or two old. While the officers were waiting for CPS to arrive, the kids' aunt (who also lived in the apartment) showed up and basically said, "Its about time you people did something," as if she'd called for help and got none. She knew what was going on in the house and never did anything about it. To the best of my knowledge, the mother never tried to get custody of her children back.


175 posted on 08/02/2004 9:57:23 AM PDT by grellis (No payments, no interest until June 2005! Hurry now and SAVE!)
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To: Ghengis
We administer more discipline (including spankings) than any parent(s) that we know of.

Spankings don't work with all kids. You have to find the proper method. It's not as easy as it looks. Some kids don't mind a spanking, even if it hurts. But they can't stand to be alone/ignored.

176 posted on 08/02/2004 10:00:18 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: BluegrassScholar
Give these bratty kids and their permissive parents a few years, and you will have the horror we just went through.

Our daughter spent the night at the home of her girfriend. Both are 14. The next day, they called and said the girlfriend's parents were taking them to the mall. Okay by us.

We found out later that the parents didn't take her to the mall, they took her to her 15-y/o boyfriend's house (she's not permitted to date), where his mother left the two of them alone for several hours. I'll let your imaginations wander as to what too place while they were alone.

All parents involved in this little subterfuge knew full well they were violating our boundaries, did it anyway, and lied about it when we found out. Needless to say the list of friends our daughter can spend the night with has been shortened considerably.

177 posted on 08/02/2004 10:03:34 AM PDT by Not A Snowbird (Official RKBA Landscaper and Arborist, Duchess of Green Leafy Things)
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To: shhrubbery!

I was in Walmart one time and a kid was having a fit. Suddenly, his father walked up, turned him around and gave him a swat on the butt that ended the tirade. A woman walking next to me turned to her friend and said "That man just struck that child". I responded to her amazement "The child was choking on something".


178 posted on 08/02/2004 10:04:20 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: AppyPappy

Some people are such busybodies. Bet they're all 'Rats.


179 posted on 08/02/2004 10:08:00 AM PDT by shhrubbery!
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To: SandyInSeattle

I'm sure their rationale for lying was "Well, they are too strict. They should let their daughter live a little". Translation: Our child is going to screw up and we are more comforted to see other children screwing up because it looks like it's not our fault.

My mother is all about this philosophy. She thinks all teens are like farm animals and we should just get used to it. No wonder we are all so screwed up.


180 posted on 08/02/2004 10:08:00 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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