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NRA Director Sen. Larry Craig's Ammunition Ban Amendment
KeepAndBearArms.com ^ | February 26, 2004 | Angel Shamaya

Posted on 02/26/2004 11:15:11 PM PST by TERMINATTOR

While National Rifle Association officials have been denying that they've been orchestrating a sellout in the U.S. Senate, Sen. Larry Craig (R-ID) -- an NRA Director -- has been working on an ammunition ban. On the Senate floor today, he introduced, discussed, defended and tried to justify the "Craig/Frist" amendment. This amendment, said Craig, is needed "to strengthen current armor piercing ammunition law." NRA's point-man in the U.S. Senate says that this is "what the law enforcement community needs."

"We don't want to wipe out the hunting and sporting ammunition," said Craig. The "sporting purpose" test was used before -- as justification for firearm rights infringements via the 1938 Nazi Weapons Law and later copied nearly verbatim in the U.S. Gun Control Act of 1968.

"Let's send a message that armor piercing ammunition is flat off limits," said Sen. Craig.

The NRA Director went on to support strong enforcement of his proposed ammunition ban, using phrases like "prison for life."

The Second Amendment does not enumerate the right of the people to keep and bear "sporting" arms. Banning any arms, or their ammunition, is clearly off limits to Congress. A longtime Director of the National Rifle Association ought to know that. Instead, he's supporting an ammo ban -- based on the infamous Nazi "sporting purpose" text -- on the floor of the U.S. Senate.

Some might suggest that it doesn't matter what gets said on the Senate floor -- that what matters is what gets signed into law. People who believe that ought to consider the dangers here. Once a "pro gun" congressman publicly expresses support for gun control -- ammunition control is indeed gun control -- he empowers the enemy and emboldens future attempts to whittle away our rights.

The truth about civilian possession of "armor piercing ammunition" is immutable, immovable, unchanging. If government employees can deploy AP ammo against the people, denying that same ammunition to the people is directly contradictory to the meaning, purpose and intent of the Second Amendment: a balance of power.

The excuse for banning AP ammo -- "to protect law enforcement employees" -- is a dangerous road to travel. It's the same justification used to ban magazines that hold more than ten rounds. It's the same reason given to deny The People free access to machineguns. It was the same foundation upon which the Clinton/Feinstein semi-auto rifle ban was built and signed into law.

When does that excuse stop working? When the legal magazine capacity is reduced to five rounds? When all semi-auto rifles are banned? When owning a bullet-resistant vest means life imprisonment -- unless the government signs your paycheck? When all handguns are banned?

If you use "protecting law enforcement" as justification to restrict the right of the people to keep and bear arms -- if you accept that unacceptable excuse for chipping away at the Second Amendment -- then lay down your arms and go tend your garden, catch up on your reading and forget about restoring the Second Amendment. There's no end to that excuse other than total disarmament -- because even a mere single shot .22 caliber rifle manufactured before World War One can be used to injure a law enforcement officer.

Bear in mind that Sen. Craig's ammo ban amendment is being offered today, by him -- to his own bill. The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (S1805) is written to protect gun manufacturers from the frivolous lawsuits being waged by those whose ultimate goal is to ban all firearms. The bill is being used as a rider for many other gun controls today and leading up to the final vote on Tuesday. Sen. Craig wants to amend his own bill -- with an ammunition ban -- under the guise of abiding his oath of office. He said so on C-SPAN, in plain English.

We've requested text of the Amendment (SA2625) from Senator Craig's office and through another Senator's office, as well. As soon as we have it, we will publish it.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 2a; ammoban; apammo; backstabber; bang; banglist; catholiclist; infringement; kopkiller; larrycraig; libertyteeth; nazi; noriflesallowed; nra; nradirector; nrasellouts; nrawol; poisonpill; proguncontrol; rhodesia; rkba; sleezyrider; sportingarms; sportingpurpose; treeofliberty; trt
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To: Gargantua
Well...
Lessee here. 200grn cupros (free)+basic loading supplies
@28.5 Cents per round.
Will it go through a M1A1? No, but it will do a number on a Suburban....
SMLE. Cost: about 150.00 us dollars.

VS
Depleted Uranium rounds = can't get and can't afford.
.50 caliber rifle minimum for a good one, 1500.00 american dollars.

I'll deal with JBT-mobiles long before I deal with M1 tanks.
321 posted on 03/03/2004 1:36:27 PM PST by cavtrooper21 (911. Government sponsored "Dial-a-Prayer".)
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To: cavtrooper21
I agree about the JBT mobiles, and I was (obviously, I thought) joking about the depleted uranium rounds.

Stay safe, stay armed.

;-/

322 posted on 03/03/2004 8:30:58 PM PST by Gargantua (Choose this day Whom you will serve.)
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To: Travis McGee
Add me to the bang list, if you would, please.
323 posted on 03/10/2004 10:42:38 AM PST by gundog
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To: yarddog
They have plenty of power for shooting people and that flat pointed bullet is effective.

Yikes!

The last gunshow that I attended had some of Remington's Accelerator rounds in 30-30...SP .223(55 gr.)in sabots stuffed in standard 30-30 brass. Not sure as to the advisability of stacking 'em in a tubular magazine, though. The dealer told me that Remington is discontinuing them...I don't know for sure. In my experience, what that means is "You should buy my entire inventory, right now." :)

324 posted on 03/10/2004 11:06:19 AM PST by gundog
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To: Myrddin
Kennedy is already pushing to ban all centerfire ammo. Rifle or otherwise.

To include all components.?

325 posted on 03/10/2004 11:13:11 AM PST by gundog
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To: Travis McGee
The Shoguns must be getting disturbed by all of the cases and cases of surplus ball ammo in 556, 762X39 and 308 getting shipped to mere peasants across the land. Must disturb them greatly.

One can only hope that it has them is an absolute cold sweat. That is the exact point. There a L - O - T of cases and cases and cases of sealed, well preserved ammo in private hands, there is more every day and it will be there for a LONG time.

AMEN

T L I

326 posted on 03/10/2004 11:25:17 AM PST by TLI (...........ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA..........)
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To: Don Joe
It was a chilling, haunting "siren-like" wailing.

A mortally wounded raccoon will make that sound, or one similar to it. I've shot many with CB rounds and had them crawl off and start in with that Gawd-awful wailing.

327 posted on 03/10/2004 11:31:42 AM PST by gundog
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To: american_ranger
"Armor Piercing" is a military term about a bullet designed to penetrate light armor. Typically these have steel cores so they are heavier thus more kinetic energy...

What the f*&%...? Steel is used simply because it doesn't flatten like a bug on impact. In point of fact it is less dense than lead.

328 posted on 03/10/2004 11:38:06 AM PST by gundog
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To: SauronOfMordor
Remington used to make "Remington Accelerator" ammo...

Some was available as recently as last Saturday at a gun show...in 30-06 and 30-30. I'd hate to start thinking in terms of "pre-ban" ammo.

329 posted on 03/10/2004 11:45:29 AM PST by gundog
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To: gundog
The *Bang_list isn't that kind of list. What you do is go to this URL, and put the page that appears into your "favorites." Then, every day or so, go to your favorites, and click that link, and you will see a listing of all of the latest gun-oriented "*Bang_list" threads.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/involved?group=152

Bang List Link Here.

330 posted on 03/10/2004 5:37:48 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: TLI
I wrote a 568 page novel, mainly to put the grabboids into a cold sweat, so that they will be informed enough not to try anything REALLY stupid.


331 posted on 03/10/2004 5:43:04 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: gundog
I didn't see the detail in the bill. Presumably, you would no longer be able to handload ammo. The "goverment" would dictate the maximum powder charges and bullet types that a commercial ammo manufacturer could offer for sale. That would be the only way to control whether the round could penetrate a bullet proof vest. It is a wrong-headed approach that amounts to a stealth attempt at full disarmament by eliminating ammo.
332 posted on 03/11/2004 7:56:41 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: ahadams2

Yep.

I guessed the source of this article just from the first couple of lines.

Same old same old.

What's their motto? Bash the NRA/Republican Party - Vote for kerry?


333 posted on 07/29/2004 6:52:51 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems.)
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To: Shooter 2.5

you wrote "What's their motto? Bash the NRA/Republican Party - Vote for kerry?"

naah, they're more subtle than that - they want to Bash the NRA and the GOP so gullible people will vote for fringe candidates, thus insuring kerry's election...or at least it sure looks that way from here.


334 posted on 07/29/2004 7:53:38 PM PDT by ahadams2 (http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com is the url for the Anglican Freeper Resource Page)
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To: ChicagoHebrew

About the only thing you need armor piercing ammunition for is killing cops.



No, since cops vests (which are not "armor" can be penetrated by ordinary rifle rounds, the only thing AP ammo is good for is for defending the security of a free state against agents of tyranny who are hiding behind ARMOR.


335 posted on 07/29/2004 8:09:36 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your Friendly Freeper Patent Attorney)
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To: american_ranger

>>"Armor Piercing" is a military term about a bullet designed to penetrate light armor. Typically these have steel cores so they are heavier thus more kinetic energy and will borrow through more armor.

NO, actually, steel (or tungsten, or whatever) is lighter (or not significantly heavier) than lead. The point is that it remains sharp and skinny, and carried through metal armor plate.

>>"Armor Piercing" bullets are already outlawed.

NO, they are generally legal, except that sales by licensed firearm dealers is restricted, as is importation. Perfectly legal for you and me to own, under federal law.

>>"Cop killer" or bullets that will penetrate protective vests are different and subjective to a lot of things.

NO, "cop-killer bullets" is a fictional term. It refers to hard bullets that have no advantage on bullet proof vests, but are designed for cops to shoot through vehicle glass and sheet metal. They are coated with plastic (teflon) to avoid wearing out cop gun barrels, not to have any effect on penetrating kevlar vests. I suppose they would better be termed "cop killer-bullets."

>>A large pistol bullet at close range can penetrate a protective vest.

Not necessarily. Depends much more on the vest and on the bullet and load than on the range.


336 posted on 07/29/2004 8:33:51 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your Friendly Freeper Patent Attorney)
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To: TERMINATTOR

As someone trying to become a LEO, I'm not worried about AP rounds. I'm more worried about three guys jumping me, or someone I locked up before recognizing me and my family out on the town and trying something stupid, or my agency hierarchy selling me out for politically expedient reasons.


337 posted on 07/29/2004 9:04:51 PM PDT by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig (You can turn your head away from the Berg video and still hear Al Queda's calls to prayer.)
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To: Travis McGee

Please see my post 337


338 posted on 07/29/2004 9:06:00 PM PDT by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig (You can turn your head away from the Berg video and still hear Al Queda's calls to prayer.)
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To: TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig

Amen.


339 posted on 07/29/2004 9:08:31 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: archy
Good to see you back on your feet, archy.

What do you make of the claims being made here? I can't sort it out between the hyperbole and what this legislation actually says/what it would actually do. Do you have a take on it?

Again, good to see you back on FR.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

340 posted on 07/30/2004 5:44:03 AM PDT by Joe Brower (The Constitution defines Conservatism.)
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