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Jews make case versus Mel's movie (People can we stop this insanity?)
NY Daily News ^ | Frb, 19 2004 | TRACY CONNOR

Posted on 02/20/2004 4:48:28 PM PST by dinok

Coming soon to a synagogue near you: "The Passion: The Counteroffensive." Jewish groups across the city are gearing up for the premiere of Mel Gibson's movie with sermons, forums and press conferences on the death of Christ. Their aim is to fight any suggestion that Jews - two millennia ago and today - are responsible for Jesus' crucifixion. Only a handful of Jewish activists have seen the movie, which chronicles the last 12 hours of Christ's life, but they've raised the alarm about its message.

They believe Gibson faults the Jewish high priest Caiaphas rather than the Roman tyrant Pontius Pilate for sending Jesus to his death, and they're upset Gibson did not cut a line implying Jews are cursed by God.

The Anti-Defamation League is planning an interfaith forum March 10 at Rodeph Sholom on the upper West Side, where Rabbi Robert Levine already has a full slate of discussions about the movie. "We've got ‘Passion' everywhere," Levine said.

The New York Board of Rabbis plans to see the movie when it opens Wednesday — Ash Wednesday — with Christian leaders and hold a press conference.

The American Jewish Committee has a symposium next month, and the Board of Jewish Education of New York is updating its Web site with materials about the movie for schools.

(Excerpt) Read more at nydailynews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Israel; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; Unclassified; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: christ; christianity; history; jews; passion
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To: dinok
"Their aim is to fight any suggestion that Jews - two millennia ago and today - are responsible for Jesus' crucifixion."

Their campaign will be in vain. While I crucified Christ because of my sin, God, through the Apostle Peter answered the question of responsability in Acts 2:22 - 41, at the end of the following message, 3000 Jews who heard it accepted Yashua as their savior... becoming the first members of the church. My prayer is that multitudes of Jews come to Yashua as a direct result of this film, for He, the stone that was rejected by the builders is in fact the chief cornerstone and their (and my) Messiah, the savior. The very one promised in Isaiah 53 and Psalm 23 and presented to Israel as the suffering savior.

“Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know—

this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.

“But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.

“For David says of Him,‘I SAW THE LORD ALWAYS IN MY PRESENCE; FOR HE IS AT MY RIGHT HAND, SO THAT I WILL NOT BE SHAKEN. ‘THEREFORE MY HEART WAS GLAD AND MY TONGUE EXULTED; MOREOVER MY FLESH ALSO WILL LIVE IN HOPE; BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY. ‘YOU HAVE MADE KNOWN TO ME THE WAYS OF LIFE; YOU WILL MAKE ME FULL OF GLADNESS WITH YOUR PRESENCE.

“Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.

“And so, because he was a prophet and knew that GOD HAD SWORN TO HIM WITH AN OATH TO SEAT one OF HIS DESCENDANTS ON HIS THRONE,

he looked ahead and spoke of £the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY.

“This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses.

“Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear.

“For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: ‘THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, “SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET.”’

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”

Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?”

Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

“For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.”

And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation!”

So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:22 - 41)

41 posted on 02/20/2004 7:16:06 PM PST by Jmouse007 (Communism: death of the masses all in the name of "policy" and "progress")
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To: Jmouse007
OK...so you can copy-paste...but what do YOU think of all this?

Plain English please...no Bible quotes.
42 posted on 02/20/2004 7:24:54 PM PST by dinok
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To: dinok
and from there comes the 'persecution attitude' they carry. I'm very glad my Jewish friends don't have that burden.
43 posted on 02/20/2004 7:35:26 PM PST by B4Ranch ( Dear Mr. President, Sir, Are you listening to the voters?)
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To: dinok
IMHO, from studies of Scripture in good and evil, I have noticed how God's policy of grace frequently disciplines the adversary's policy of evil by simply allowing the evil intent to follow its natural consequence.

In this case, the blood of Christ symbolizing a Perfect Sacrifice for all mankind's sins is available to all who believe.

Those who don't believe are not protected by that blood of the Perfect Sacrifice.

Isn't it ironic that those who reject the Blood of Jesus Christ, also reject anybody implying Jesus Christ's death be on their heads? The consequence of such rejection is the rejection of that saving grace available to prevent them from suffering an eternal judgment.

From their perspective, the refusal of accepting the blood implies they have no guilt, yet it is only that blood which they reject which may remove any and all guilt from their lives.

Those who insist upon it's rejection will indeed receive their just rewards as they stand condemned already.
44 posted on 02/20/2004 7:44:26 PM PST by Cvengr (;^))
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To: Jmouse007
I Thessalonians 2:14-16

14 For you, brethren, are become followers of the churches of God, which are in Judea, in Christ Jesus: for you also have suffered the same things from your own countrymen, even as they have from the Jews:

15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and the prophets, and have persecuted us, and they please not God, and are adversaries to all men;

16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sin alway: for the wrath of God is come upon them to the end.

Witham - The Jews filled up the measure of their iniquities by the opposition they every where manifested to the religion of Christ. The earliest Fathers of the Church testify that they dispersed people into every nation to blaspheme the name of Christ; and hence sprang the evil fame which Christians bore among the pagans. See the apologies of S. Justin, Tertullian, Origen, etc.

45 posted on 02/20/2004 7:46:45 PM PST by Grigeo
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To: Cvengr
"From their perspective, the refusal of accepting the blood implies they have no guilt, yet it is only that blood which they reject which may remove any and all guilt from their lives.

Those who insist upon it's rejection will indeed receive their just rewards as they stand condemned already."

Why is it that you can not say in clear language what you want to say.

"Those who don't believe are not protected by that blood of the Perfect Sacrifice."

So those of us who don't agree with you and confess guilt to make you happy will go to hell?

If you have something tro say, say it clearly. If you have the guts.
46 posted on 02/20/2004 7:49:49 PM PST by dinok
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To: Cvengr
Those who don't believe are not protected by that blood of the Perfect Sacrifice.
 
I could not find those words in the Bible, in that order as posted by you. Perhaps you can help me find them!
 
Be careful of what you put out into the atmosphere.
 
 Not everyone is as stupid, and naive, as I am.
 

Genesis 12:3
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
(Whole Chapter: Genesis 12 In context: Genesis 12:2-4)
 
 
Commonality:
 
 
Zechariah 14:4
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
(Whole Chapter: Zechariah 14 In context: Zechariah 14:3-5)

47 posted on 02/20/2004 8:01:20 PM PST by Radix (There is more to the Rad Man than just an X Rating! Sophocles, his, hmmm, is anyone watching?)
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To: o_zarkman44
SO WHATS THE BIG DEAL? SHEESH.

I've been reading message boards on AOL and what I keep seeing in post after post is a concern that "this movie could incite violence against Jews because that's happened in the past after Passion plays."
Well, I did some research and could find no reports of violence against Jews after Passion plays here in the US. As a matter of fact, the only references I found were to incidents that happened in the middle ages.
So, I talked with one of the ladies who has been making those posts and she claims that there aren't accurate hate crime stats, etc.
I asked if she was willing to consider the possibility that Jewish leaders are exaggerating things. She wasn't willing to entertain that idea and when I expressed my concern that Muslim extremists could attack Jews with the intention of making it look like Christians did it in an effort to create problems between American Jews and Christians she didn't have ANY concern about that happening. She said "I don't think in this country that they are that sophisticated."
I don't get it.

48 posted on 02/20/2004 8:02:53 PM PST by RoseyT
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To: dinok
"So those of us who don't agree with you and confess guilt to make you happy will go to hell? " If you have something tro say, say it clearly. If you have the guts."

No guts or emotion is required, nor does the agreement with myself have anything to do with it.

Jesus Christ remained obedient to the Father even unto death on the Cross. His soul descended and three days later ascended and resurrectted in the body, and later ascended even unto the third heaven and seated at the right hand of the Father.

His faith was counted as righteousness and that faith unto all those who believe also is our hope. His blood in a somatic sense displayed he was indeed physically dead when placed in the tomb. His blood as reference to the Perfect Sacrifice became the propitiation of the Father and redemption for the sin of all mankind.

Every man born today inherits the sin nature of the first Adam at physical birth, dead and separated from God spiritually. Jesus Chrsit as the second Adam, was the first human to possess a perfect body, soul and spirit, both as a human and with divine nature after the fall of Adam in the Garden.

His entire life on earth, during the first Advent, displayed to man how man is to live. A new Church Age was then established by which every believer is a priest with equal status before the our High Priest in heaven, Jesus Christ, and as such have fellowship with God.

Until one has faith in God through Jesus Christ, there is no mediator by which imperfect man may fellowship with perfect God. The Blood of Christ, symbolizing the Perfect Sacrifice, propitiated the wrath of the Father, redeemed man's condemnation in a marketplace of sin, and offers salvation to man who is even today initially born with a sin nature separated from spiritual holiness, but now has an opportunity to be reborn in the spirit and again become whole in fellowship with the Living God.

Don't take my word for it,...follow God's Word. God Bless.

49 posted on 02/20/2004 8:08:44 PM PST by Cvengr (;^))
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To: Radix
Good catch, and yes I was mistaken. I do believe in the unlimited atonement. Christ's death on the Cross was for the sins of all mankind, past, present and future. Those who believe in Him are saved.

Those believers who were in Paradise or Abraham's Bosom are now in heaven with Him when He ascended.
50 posted on 02/20/2004 8:13:12 PM PST by Cvengr (;^))
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To: dinok
I believe what the Word of almighty God says about what took place regarding the crucifixion of Christ. If you don't like it you can take it up with Him. By the way, it IS in plain English and I find it incredible that when Christ physically returns to Israel, specifically the Mount of Olives, the exact spot from whence He left the planet. God's word says:

“I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me WHOM THEY HAVE PIERCED; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.

“In that day there will be great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the plain of Megiddo.

“The land will mourn, every family by itself; the family of the house of David by itself and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself and their wives by themselves;

the family of the house of Levi by itself and their wives by themselves; the family of the Shimeites by itself and their wives by themselves;

all the families that remain, every family by itself and their wives by themselves." (Zecheriah 12:10 - 14 Emphasis mine)

It seems that God does hold the Jews partially responsible because they will, after over 2,000 years recognize Christ "whom THEY have pierced" and they will mourn for Him.

They will mourn because at last they will realize that the Lord Jesus Christ, the very one they rejected and had crucified and who arose from the dead, is in reality THEIR Messiah, the one they have been waiting for throughout their entire history! The good news is they will repent as a nation and finally accept Him as their savior and Christ.

According to Acts 2:23, in the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, the Jews nailed Jesus to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. Those are the facts, that along with the reality that I crucified, Christ. He died because of MY sin and in My place.

51 posted on 02/20/2004 9:48:02 PM PST by Jmouse007 (Communism: death of the masses all in the name of "policy" and "progress")
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Comment #52 Removed by Moderator

To: LindaSOG
I grew up in Long Island at the same time you were in Brooklyn. Being a Greek immigrant in Valley Stream I stood out like a sore thumb. One day after school I was cornered by a group of kids who proceeded to beat me up. One of them said to me "we don't have any niggers in our school, so you will do". I recognized his voice and caught a glimpse of him. The guy was Jewish.

Prejudice and hatred runs on all groups and nationalities. Its based on stupidity, and a sick need for some to feel superior to others.
53 posted on 02/21/2004 5:25:49 PM PST by dinok
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To: dinok
I think many so-called Jewish leaders led by the long ago irrelevant ADL are milking this for donations and air time.

Simply my conclusion after watching this continue to unfold.

Would any member of one faith truly expect members of another faith to disregard 2000 years of the cornerstone of their written word just to accomodate their sensitivities?

It's baffling and is doing Judaism no good in my view.
55 posted on 02/21/2004 5:33:57 PM PST by wardaddy ("either the arabs are at your throat, or at your feet")
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To: King Black Robe
KBR,

You wrote:

"Do you think they are really afraid that some Jews will come to Christ?"

I think you've hit the proverbial nail-on-the-head. Gibson said in his interview with Diane Sawyer that the people doing the most complaining aren't really upset with him, they're upset that the truth of Jesus and His suffering is about to have a major impact.

The devil is really stirred up over this film.

Brian
56 posted on 02/21/2004 5:35:37 PM PST by Kharis13
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To: dinok
I have heard a lot about the controversy surrounding the movie "The Passion" and two things crossed my mind.
1). There are a lot of people out there who believe that Jewish people control Hollywood, so Mel Gibson puts himself as a fall guy to see what he "can get away with" in "Jewish-controlled" Hollywood, and break the back of what some people call "secular Jewish" control of Hollywood.
2). A lot of people believe that in popular culture Conservative Christians don't get enough respect and blame
that lack of respect and blame it on Jewish people because
of their prominence in popular culture. i.e. The movie "The Passion" is a way to "get back" at what a lot of people believe is "Jewish control" of popular culture.
I myself am a traditional Jew who does not plan to see the movie, it does not reflect my religious belief.
57 posted on 02/22/2004 9:55:58 PM PST by TaqueriaFanatic
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To: TaqueriaFanatic
"I myself am a traditional Jew who does not plan to see the movie, it does not reflect my religious belief."

Seeing the film may give you insite in to Christianity . I know this just a movie and it may not be that great in the end, but its a window in to a religion that most Jews from my experience still distrust and fear. (Not speaking of you in particular.)
58 posted on 02/23/2004 4:38:27 PM PST by dinok
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To: andy58-in-nh
"Coming soon to a synagogue near you: "The Passion: The Counteroffensive." Jewish groups across the city are gearing up for the premiere of Mel Gibson's movie with sermons, forums and press conferences on the death of Christ. Their aim is to fight any suggestion that Jews - two millennia ago and today - are responsible for Jesus' crucifixion."

They could save themselves the trouble. Go to any evangelical congregation and aske the pastor or any member who is responsible for the death of Christ. You'll get one answer, all of us. Not just the Jews. Not just the Romans. All of Us.
59 posted on 02/23/2004 4:48:48 PM PST by DugwayDuke
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To: Radix
I watched a movie concerning the life of Mohammed. The prophet's visage was not ever shown. That ridiculous aspect of the film was very distracting to me. I wondered why the movie makers did make a movie that was so deferential to that religion.

That's 'cause Christians won't truck-bomb your HQ if they suspect you're "dissing" them. In another time, and another movie, the philosophy was called "Let the Wookie win"

60 posted on 02/23/2004 5:07:06 PM PST by SauronOfMordor (No anchovies!)
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