A return to submissive wives?

Boston.com ^ | 2 February 2004 | Cathy Young

[shrinkermd]

QUITE A FEW people would probably rail against Laura Schlessinger, the radio pop psychologist known for her diatribes against abortion, working mothers, and gay rights, even if she said that you should be kind to animals and brush your teeth regularly. When "Dr. Laura" writes a book which pins most of the blame for modern marital problems on selfish, overly demanding women, that's bound to ruffle feathers.

[Woahhs]

But Dr. Laura is the mean one, don'tch know.

[SwankyC]

You're kidding right?

[Quix]

Isn't this a duplicate of:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1052355/posts?q=1&&page=501

A lot of good excerpts from the best book I know on ATTACHMENTS and related problems from nonattachment at early ages . . . is at post

#545 at the above link.

[jimt]

I would say that most of these undesireable women give plenty of warning signs during courtship that a man ought to be able to pick up on.

Sometimes they lie.

My ex did something I (and my closest friends) found completely unacceptable at a group gathering. After listening to a bunch of claptrap about why what she did was perfectly all right, she became aware that she and I would not be spending any more time together. At that point she apologized profusely and said it would never happen again.

She pretended to be submissive, but secretly harbored tremendous resentment, forever.

Had I similarly offended her and her friends I would either have apologized and meant it, or not apologized and kissed them off.

She did neither, being sneaky and underhanded, and a person who "saved up" problems only to blow up at trivia later.

I guess I should have seen the warning signs !

[steve-b]

However, I do have a problem with the blanket characterization of men being interested only in food and sex.

Insert Bill Clinton joke here.

[Woahhs]

Wow.

After seeing your pictures I have to wonder "how does she spice things up: a housecoat, and fuzzy slippers?"

[shhrubbery!]

Andrea Yates was also seriously mentally ill. The problem wasn't her subservience to her husband; it was his failure to get her the help she needed.

I may be wrong, but I think Rusty Yates DID try to get his wife help. She had psychiatric "help," you know (though in many cases I believe that is no help at all; but it is the expected "thing to do"). And there were relatives such as Rusty's mom frequently helping out with child care.

I believe the blame lies with Andrea Yates herself. I simply do not buy into all the excuses made for her. Many women have had severe postnatal depression without once thinking of harming their children.

[BibChr]

Only the nutty and the romantically immature think about marrying in this day and age.

Clever Judo-attempt dodge. Going to tell us it's working for you?

Dan

[Woahhs]

If we start with the premise that when you marry, you marry a sinner, then you can provide a context for gracious, God-honoring, enjoyable marriage.

You, my friend, are in for an education.

[Hillary's Lovely Legs]

Hopefully, if I raise my son right, he will never marry.

Don't worry, he can get his civil union in Vermont.

[Theo]

I am getting one. At times it's humbling and difficult, but it is good, a gift from the Lord.

[headsonpikes]

You, my friend, are in for an education.

In my still-smarting experience, 'submissive wives' is oxymoronic - but some husbands may take longer than others to learn this.

[KantianBurke]

"It's going to take time and giving up, as you seem to have done, is not an option."

There's a bit of a difference between recognizing a problem and being stubborn and thinking that simple determination will fix the issue. IMHO the recent reports by Stanley Kurtz catalouging the virutal elimination of marriage in Scandinavia is quite telling. America is well on the way to that path and time is not on your side.

[MissAmericanPie]

The only response that deserves is to tell you to go stuff yourself.

[af_vet_rr]

Turning men against women or women against men is silly. Men will love and respect the woman they want to spend the rest of their lives with and women will do the same. Attempts have been made by the fems to damage the relationship between men and women but...those who are wise know the difference and those are the ones who marry, raise a family and teach their children faith, hope and love. They also teach their children that love ... real love (not just sex) is what will be there in the older years when comfort and sweetness towards each other will be even more important as they grow old together.

Great post. My wife and I love and respect each other, and neither of us submits to the other or does any other such nonsense that the so-called experts talk about (most of the experts seem to have a problem with marriage or relationships themselves). Not everybody is able to find somebody that they can have a mutual trust and respect for.

While I personally think it's weird or some kind of fetish that some husbands and wives want spouses that submit to them, it's not my place to judge them. Some people have problems (insecurity or stress perhaps) that lead to their having to be in charge of whatever. Maybe lack of control in some part of their lives, and so in another part (their relationships) they have to have total control.

I just don't think it's a marriage they have, it's something else. What, I'm not sure.

[Artist]

"Dr. Laura is divorced? Raising her only son? Isn't he about 18 years old now? When did she get divorced?"

As far as I know, she's still married to her second husband who is the father of her son. There is some question whether they were married when her son was born, and her son has her last name. Her second husband left a wife and some kids behind when he married her.

Not a very pretty picture.

[Euro-American Scum]

About Dr. Laura- she tends towards brash overly siimplistic judgements, but that's just her radio shtik. She sounds so outrageous because her comments aren't P.C., and we're so unused to hearing that viewpoint.

I remember her when she started on LA radio back on KFI many years ago. She was on at night back then, and was much more. . . how shall I say it? Mellow? Civil? Whatever.

Anyway, she dialed it up several notches when she went national. Part of the strategy was to be outrageous apparently because it worked so well for Rush (who was the only other national radio talk show host at the time.)

She's got a good point with this new book, although I believe it's too late to have any lasting effect. Radical feminists have done their damage and will not go gently into that good night. They will go kicking, screaming, shrieking, squealing, hair-pulling with fingers pointed in accusation. They will demand support from the government -- the de facto new big daddy -- and they will get it.

Sorry, Laura, you're too late.

[Toespi]

God love you! I never felt that way, was excited to meet and love my son's future wife. I have been, in my opinion a fabulous mother-in-law and it has been a difficult jounrney. Her mother (the oldest sister of four and mother of three daughters) is obsessed with her daughters being "strong" and independent of men. For a while it was hell on earth watching my son being manipulated by his mother-in-law, via his wife. He has finally gotten a grip on the situation but not without tremedous heartache and upheaval. I would love to give my daughter-in-law this book but it would mean war.

[ArrogantBustard]

Lovely. Seventy some odd posts, and nobody seems to be interestd in where the idea of "submissive" wives comes from, or what it means. So here it is:

The Epistle of Saint Paul to the Ephesians

Chapter 5

Exhortations to a virtuous life. The mutual duties of man and wife, by the example of Christ and of the Church.

1	Be ye therefore followers of God, as most dear children:

2	And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us and hath delivered himself for us, an oblation and a sacrifice to God for an odour of sweetness.

3	But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not so much as be named among you, as becometh saints:

4	Or obscenity or foolish talking or scurrility, which is to no purpose: but rather giving of thanks.

5	For know you this and understand: That no fornicator or unclean or covetous person (which is a serving of idols) hath inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6	Let no man deceive you with vain words. For because of these things cometh the anger of God upon the children of unbelief.

7	Be ye not therefore partakers with them.

8	For you were heretofore darkness, but now light in the Lord. Walk then as children of the light.

9	For the fruit of the light is in all goodness and justice and truth:

10	Proving what is well pleasing to God.

11	And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness: but rather reprove them.

12	For the things that are done by them in secret, it is a shame even to speak of.

13	But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for all that is made manifest is light.

14	Wherefore he saith: Rise, thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead: and Christ shall enlighten thee.

15	See therefore, brethren, how you walk circumspectly: not as unwise,

16	But as wise: redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

17	Wherefore, become not unwise: but understanding what is the will of God.

18	And be not drunk with wine, wherein is luxury: but be ye filled with the Holy Spirit,

19	Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual canticles, singing and making melody in your hearts to the Lord:

20	Giving thanks always for all things, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to God and the Father:

21	Being subject one to another, in the fear of Christ.

22	Let women be subject to their husbands, as to the Lord:

23	Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body.

24	Therefore as the church is subject to Christ: so also let the wives be to their husbands in all things.

25	Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church and delivered himself up for it:

26	That he might sanctify it, cleansing it by the laver of water in the word of life:

27	That he might present it to himself, a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28	So also ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29	For no man ever hated his own flesh, but nourisheth and cherisheth it, as also Christ doth the church:

30	Because we are members of him, body, of his flesh and of his bones.

31	For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother: and shall cleave to his wife. And they shall be two in one flesh.

32	This is a great sacrament: but I speak in Christ and in the church.

33	Nevertheless, let every one of you in particular love for his wife as himself: And let the wife fear her husband.

Note verse 25: Husbands, Love your wives. As some of you may know, "love" in this verse is translated from the Greek "agape", which refers to a complete, from the soul, self-sacrificial seeking of the good of the beloved. In the Latin Vulgate, St. Jerome translated it "viri diligite uxores": "Men: be completely attentive to the good of your wives..."

[Tuscaloosa Goldfinch]

I agree with you to a point. I was brought up with a SAHM,(stay at home mom) attorney business-owning dad. I am a SAHM, my husband owns a business. I think he's great, tell him so all the time, love to bring him coffee.

We brought our children up in a traditional way and they are both married and happy, even though they married young, as we did. I think part of the problem is the propensity of today's parents to give their children the impression that they are the center of the world, they are perfect, can do no wrong, and should have anything and everything they want. These same children marry a person exactly like them, and selfishness and self-centeredness is the only thing these two people have ever known. Marriage is a very hard place to learn to be unselfish.

Sometimes I think Dr. Laura is extremely rude to some of her callers. We don't get her in our market, so, admittedly I can't say I have a total familiarity with how she does things. I understand the time constraints involved in radio, but I think she must read what's on the prompter and makes a decision before she even hears the person's voice. Sometimes I think she totally misses what they are trying to say, and they are left without an answer, and she gets in her "zingers". Family relationships are complex and she seems to reduce them to the lowest common denominator.

Having said that, I think the book may be helpful in getting wives to rethink their selfishness in marriage.